Face masks - silly question?

[42andcounting]

Ok, first off I'll state I'm not talking about taking PPE away from front line workers, I'm talking about home made (sewn) masks. Also I know that they are useless unless used correctly, removed safely, replaced regularly, etc.

Advice seems to be conflicting across the world as to whether they are any use, and in the UK the prevailing wisdom seems to be that they are not recommended because they only stop the wearer from transmitting infection, but not from contracting it (ie my mask protects you from me, not me from you).

My question is, given that we know many people are asymptomatic, why aren't we just wearing masks anyway, as they can't worsen the situation, and may improve it slightly?

(Genuine question)

@Northernsoullover While shopping this morning, it was perfectly obvious that many people cannot follow an instruction to stand on a marker until the person queueing in front of them has moved it up. Up until 7-10 days ago, the majority were observing shop markings. I don't believe it's coincidence that as more people are wearing masks, less people are observing the 2 metre instruction.

THE BRITISH public are to be told to wear face masks at work and on public transport after scientists told the Government they COULD help stop the spread of coronavirus.

Experts have passed on research showing that coverings could help to stop "asymptomatic people" - those who are infected but not showing symptoms - from passing on the disease.

The guidance is set to say that those who can't stay more than 2m apart at work and on buses and trains should wear a cloth face mask, such as a homemade mask, scarf or other non-surgical covering to help slow the spread of the virus.

Experts from SAGE (Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies) met yesterday to consider key evidence.

Ministers are expected to study the findings over the next few days before making the decision public and changing official guidance. They believe that by branding them as "face coverings" - such as a scarf or homemade mask - will distinguish them from the surgical masks that doctors and nurses have to wear in hospital.

Experts say that you should aim for multiple layers - a double layer of tightly-woven cotton with a thread count of at least 180 was one of the best barriers, according to researchers in the US.

Even a bandana, scarf or T-shirt can be used to cover your nose and mouth while in public.

In those countries is that slowing transmission or is it earlier strict lockdown and/ or extensive testing and contact tracing, isolating and hand washing that has made the difference?

Not lockdown, no. Things like contact tracing and testing, as well as quarantine, has certainly played a role though. Masks are definitely only a part of the picture.

Hong Kong and Taiwan have not had any kind of full lockdown, just lighter social restrictions. South Korea ditto--they did have that initial surge at the start, but that was fueled by super-spreading incidents in churches which (idiotically) forbade people from wearing masks. Once that issue was over and the masks were back on, SK's curve became slower.

Japan (my own home country) has never had a lockdown and has been pretty slack in managing this outbreakto my shame, they have tested hardly anyone, bungled quarantine from that cruise ship, had hardly any social distancing (full lockdown is legally impossible here, but Japan has been slow to do any kind of SDing)-near universal mask-wearing is almost certainly part of the reason why they have so far escaped with a low number of deaths.

@BamboozledandBefuddled that wasn't my experience this morning. I must live in a compliant area...or it could be that my 30 minute shopping experience is not representative of the whole of society. As I've said though it would be far better if people took steps to guide people into the correct usage instead of looking at 'others' as if they are, and will always be inept.

Some research I saw said it does reduce a certain amount of aerosolised virus from coming into contact. It's as good as social distancing re efficacy. Does not mean no social distancing of course. Where they are normally worn it is the same as under normal circumstances, which obviously isn5 now.

If masks weren't effective in some way they wouldn't be worn by medical professionals.
Properly educated people could wear them although I'm sure plenty of prats wouldn't

www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZtEX2-n2Hc

nice video on this subject... please watch it and pass it on...

www.fast.ai/2020/04/13/masks-summary/?fbclid=IwAR1j4IxR0-LIHv9e3OfPqWfh__LH4yPcTLz9CfrhvxEGiEpuUEytRAlXCfw

This article is worth a read. It seems facemasks can indeed significantly stop spread. I feel better for reading this. They reduce the amount you transmot the virus by 36 times.

That is a good video, @jobhunter7 czech policy requiring everyone to wear masks as soon as they step outside the door appears to be the key factor in their success in reducing spread thank you for posting it. I love the fact that the czech health minister gives advice to other countries at the end. In fact, I quite love the czech health minister now I have googled and seen him without his mask

@sossujunmash

yes please pass it on to others...

@Noooblerooble I've been posting that left, right and centre. I wish people would read it

Well we don't know if we don't try? Why doesn't Bojo get on the tv/radio tonight or tomorrow morning and ask people to make a mask? It can't hurt surely...

I read this research from a Professor of Primary Care, Trisha Greenhalgh.

Making and wearing our own resuable masks could protect others, others wearing masks could protect you. Especially as Covid-19 is often asymptomatic, if wearing masks where social distancing is difficult, it could help reduce infection.

www.fast.ai/2020/04/13/masks-summary/

I am happy for the government to request people wear them perhaps suggesting not surgical ones you have to change so often and throw away (or we run out of stocks for the NHS - or else the state supplies every with a week's supply each week).... but not that it becomes the law.

Thosee who are fearful can always choose to stay at home.

Not sure if the link worked?

www.fast.ai/2020/04/13/masks-summary/

The point is we should focus on isolating people with symptoms. In China masks are worn out of courtesy to protect people from things like the common cold. If you’re symptomatic with cv then you should not be out full stop.

There's a petition here for people to wear masks.

www.facebook.com/pg/masks4alluk/posts/

does anyone have any links to masks? The only ones i can find always turn out to be in china. And for children?

Also don't you have to change them every 30 minutes? If so each person in the UK would need 10,000 of them a year.

???? This is for people wearing medical grade masks in highly risky medical settings.

Nobody is doing this in the many countries where mask-wearing is the norm. I put on a mask when I got out and dump it in the bowl for sanitizing, when I get back in. A new mask gets used next time I am out. I sanitize the masks later. Everyone I know is doing the same thing. It is slowing transmission of the virus.

It is not onersome or difficult.

Common sense is used and nobody expects tiny kids to wear masks. It is OK to lower a mask briefly if you really need to. If someone has special needs or a medical issue that makes mask wearing hard and cannot wear a mask, that's OK too.

The main thing is that we want most people to wearing them mostly correctly for most of the time, because it slows the transmission of the virus.

I simply don't understand why some people in the UK are so resistant to doing this. As others have said, there is no version of "coming out of lockdown" which does not involve masks in some shape or form. You all need to start getting used to this idea whether you like it or not.

I started making them for my family today after I read that quilters cotton is surprisingly effective - I have a suitcase sized stash!

Tests performed at the Wake Forest Institute for Regenerative Medicine in Winston-Salem, N.C., showed good results for homemade masks using quilting fabric. Dr. Segal, of Wake Forest Baptist Health, who led the study, noted that quilters tend to use high-quality, high-thread count cotton. The best homemade masks in his study were as good as surgical masks or slightly better, testing in the range of 70 to 79 percent filtration. Homemade masks that used flimsier fabric tested as low as 1 percent filtration, Dr. Segal said.

www.nytimes.com/article/coronavirus-homemade-mask-material-DIY-face-mask-ppe.html

Feel like a bit of a dick at the thought of wearing one, but it’s worth it if it means essential workers are less likely to be exposed to the virus - the news reports of deaths of bus drivers is pretty heartbreaking.

If you’re symptomatic with cv then you should not be out full stop.

Once again for the people at the back--about 50% or so or people with COVID19 appear to have no symptoms at all. Even those who are symptomatic have a long asymptomatic period when they look and feel fine but can still spread the virus to others.

Yes, we absolutely should be testing and quarantining those with confirmed infections as well. You can do that AND encourage mask wearing for everyone else, just like they have been doing in Hong Kong, Taiwan and other countries who are succeeding with the virus.

Excellent news (if true) that we will not be forced to wear a mask . This is a double win both for civil liberties and also ensure people do not become complacent. I suppose I might be persuaded to put one on in areas where the police are testing facial recognition cameras so I could probably keep one in my pocket for those times.

I thought you used to own a private island @xenia , not a backwoods bunker and matching militia in the US