Face masks - silly question?

[42andcounting]

Ok, first off I'll state I'm not talking about taking PPE away from front line workers, I'm talking about home made (sewn) masks. Also I know that they are useless unless used correctly, removed safely, replaced regularly, etc.

Advice seems to be conflicting across the world as to whether they are any use, and in the UK the prevailing wisdom seems to be that they are not recommended because they only stop the wearer from transmitting infection, but not from contracting it (ie my mask protects you from me, not me from you).

My question is, given that we know many people are asymptomatic, why aren't we just wearing masks anyway, as they can't worsen the situation, and may improve it slightly?

(Genuine question)

I am in Italy and over the last few weeks we have gone from everyone saying masks don't make a difference to almost everyone wearing them and mask-wearing being obligatory in some regions! I think it will be our new normal for months, if not years, to come.

Better than nothing imo

I don't understand how wearing a paper or fabric mask doesn't increase the wearer's chance of catching the virus. Incoming particles can still enter, but instead of passing through or by these particles, some are likely to be retained in a moist enclosed area right by your mouth and nose.

There 2 types of masks. One type protects you from being infected, they are for health professionals, these masks usually have a valve.
When some countries recommend wearing masks to general public they mean quite different masks: simple cloth/surgical masks which protect others from you when you potentially might be carrying the virus. Basically when you breathe or cough the mask will catch most of your virus.
These masks are very cheap and simple to make and could be quite effective if everyone wears them. Some of them could be washed at home or just left for a set time on “quarantine”.
There is an argument against recommending these masks, which claims that people touch face more often when wearing a mask. However with everyone wearing masks there would be far less surfaces contaminated with virus and therefore far less likely that people will get infected by touching surfaces and then their face. Also psychologically a mask on your face might act as a reminder that you shouldn’t touch your face. Therefore the argument that people with masks touch face more often is questionable.

The government doesn’t have enough masks in stock so obviously can’t recommend us wearing them.They just don’t want to recognize this. Also they claim following WHO’s advice on masks. They have to be consistent then and follow WHO’s advice on testing. They can’t pick and choose on which advice they want to follow and which they don’t.

Can't see how to get small children, babies, people with significant LDs or dementia to wear masks.

Countries where mask-wearing is the norm exercise common sense about thissmall kids etc. are exempted. The point is to get as many people wearing them as possible so as to slow the spread-which will also ensure that kids and people with learning difficulties who are unable to wear masks, will be relatively safer too. It's like vaccination. You focus on getting as many people as possible to vaccinate and accept that a minority of people cannot do this and will need to hide in the heard.

I don't understand how wearing a paper or fabric mask doesn't increase the wearer's chance of catching the virus.

They reduce the amount of virus that gets in and out. The dose of virus affects how likely it is that your immune system will be able to throw the infection off quickly or not.

Why do you think surgeons and doctors wear masks?

Yes, you can get kids' masks here. Hopefully they will become more available elsewhere. Toddlers under 2 or so are seldom seen in masks as you just can't get them to keep them on. People show common sense regarding this fact.

I think the uk government has sent out the message no masks because they are worried 66 million people will be trying to buy them and they already don’t have enough for the nhs and other key workers. The whole you need to learn how to use them or you are risking touching your face more...is not really different from teaching people to wash their hands and avoid touching their face now.

When it's said that people touch their face more if they are wearing a mask, surely it's the mask they are touching, which will be cleaned after it's removed?! This is much more practical than trying to get people to wash their faces after eg every supermarket trip

I thought that we were told masks were pointless because they didnt want joe blogs buying all the available PPE....?

Saddiq thinks it wouid be a good thing

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52312906

Calls for use in London, on transport systems

@happypotamus I used to live in China and yes they absolutely do make them in child sizes (also with fun designs etc). There are many types of masks available, from ones with serious filters (useful for heavily polluted cities like Beijing), to the basic disposable surgical ones, to cloth ones in a variety of colours and fabrics, almost as fashion accessories. They are available from the equivalent of 24-hour corner shops, as well as supermarkets and pharmacies. Pretty much any shop really as they are considered a staple item.

Does anyone know, in countries where wearing them is mandatory, is there a minimum age? My 9 month old would pull hers off in about a second I'm sure, and I can't imagine toddlers tolerating them either. And are they even safe on sleeping babies? Are young children just not allowed out in these countries?

Or do they have exceptions, for example masks don't have to be worn by children in prams, or maybe children in prams can have a rain cover on rather than wear a mask?

Thanks for answering my questions. I wish I could get some child size ones in child-friendly designs to wear at work (I work with children and seem to have a child-size head). I tried drawing a smiley face on, but it looked ridiculous, and I tried sticking stickers on the front but they fell off.

I have no idea how I will get my 5 year old to wear one if it does become mandatory. She screams about hair brushing, wearing hats, sun cream etc etc, and will happily just stay in if I say she can't go out without one. Hopefully, she will just adapt to the new world, a year ago I thought I would have a battle to get her wearing school uniform because she refused to wear anything with buttons but she just accepted that she had to wear a shirt and got on with it.

@Meredithgrey1 Sorry, I'm not sure. I've certainly seen toddlers wearing them in China (nothing to do with the current crisis; I left there in 2015) but on the whole, people don't take young babies out (grandma looks after them at home) so the issue never really arose and of course it wasn't mandatory then.

A rain cover on the pram would work, but whether anybody in government thinks of that is another matter...

I was reading the USA’s recommendations which said children aged 2 and over.

I've just been reading a paper by Tricia Greenhalgh. Very interesting. I can't copy the link on my phone but I agree with it. Nothing wrong with applying precautionary principle in this situation. All the arguments against that have appeared in this thread are covered. Worth a read. Its worth cobbling together a mask

This one www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1435 ?

Thank you Fanny. Just watching the news... not enough evidence that they work.. hence 'precautionary principle'

I always wear a mask and eye shields when I'm going out and also when I'm at work. I look like a plonker but who cares during this pandemic? And I wash my hands as often as I am able to if I've got access to soap and water. I'm not taking any chances.

San Francisco has made the wearing of masks compulsory for all residents using public transport or in essential workplaces

www.cnbc.com/2020/04/17/san-francisco-residents-required-to-wear-face-coverings-at-essential-businesses.html

I live in Asia and they make child sizes with cartoon character designs. I actually passed a child who looked about 8 years old with Downs Syndrome wearing one yesterday. So children and special needs can find a way.

I'm in NY state. Our governor has made masks / face coverings mandatory when we're out in public or any place where maintaining social distance would be difficult. I made some (no-sew, because I suck at sewing) out of bandanas I'd collected for craft projects.

Because the government don't want us to wear them just yet. If people wear them now, some will have a false sense of security and break lockdown and distancing rules sooner than they should. Just before they decide to relax lockdown rules you will start to see more news articles about how wearing masks have worked in other countries so that we will want to wear them too. It's drip feeding for a good reason.

Then the story will start to change from masks being dangerous, like we've been told, to masks probably being helpful, this will help those who might be feeling a bit worried about going back out again too.

Masks are beneficial but only if everyone uses them right.

I think you're on to something g with that PrettyPearl

They'll come in when rules lifted a little and there will be Mir even people on public transport.

And if it's left for a couple of weeks more, then there is a bit more time for more to go on sale, or people make them.

If clothes and fabric shops are permitted to reopen in first wave of retail reopening (if there will be such a thing) that would help the DIY supply, especially if there were a couple of approved patterns/methods widely publicised (please no one link that YouTube vid of the underpants )