Where is the opposition and media?

[lockedown]

I live in London, moved here two years back from outside UK. I really want to understand why is there no criticism of the government here? Why aren't hard questions being asked from the government? I don't understand why the opposition is not speaking out.
I think the entire coronavirus situation has not been handled well by the government at all. First with the herd immunity stance which they went back on but not soon enough, then the schools being shut down so late, low testing, lax lockdown. NHS is trying to do it's best but it not being equipped properly. With the lack of protective gear people in nhs are dying. Lockdown isn't being imposed strictly. In a densely populated city like London, people are out everywhere!
But where is the opposition? Why isn't the media asking tough questions? Why hasn't the government apologised for the mistakes that it has made. I don't understand the system. Can someone please explain? The press conferences are just mostly one way - ask the tough questions someone! Is it how it is culturally? I will really like to know. Thanks.

Hancock always talks up the amount of testing happening and how well resourced the NHS and Care Homes are. However, nobody in opposition or the media are taking him to task over it.

The way in which the death statistics are being reported, which takes no account of people dying in care homes or at home also needs to be challenged. I can hardly believe what an easy ride Hancock is getting at the moment.

@bevelino, I know right. It's mostly one sided - the govt giving information. Unless someone asks the tough questions, there is no accountability. They need to be asked if they plan to announce the number of deaths from outside hospitals and when. They need to be asked why aren't they able to increase testing like some of the other countries (US, Germany for example). They also need to be asked what THEY are doing to protect the NHS. Unless they ramp up on testing, we can't see an end to it.
Asking tough questions is what gets them to think and plan as well.

@lockedown I am also concerned about the lack of challenge about non covid patients not receiving treatment and therapy from the NHS at the moment. There must be significant numbers of people coming to harm this way.

Last time I looked herd immunity hadn’t been abandoned. The government just don’t talk about it because people don’t like the thought of it. But until (or if) we eventually get a vaccine it is the only hope we have. Again remember that the lockdown is not to stop this it is to slow it down so the NHS can cope. And I disagree we should have gone into lockdown earlier. The NHS is coping. Indeed we are going to have to turn the tap on again soon I am afraid. And they behavioural scientists were adamant we shouldn’t go into lockdown too soon because people will get bored right at the moment of the peak and break it. Just when we need lockdown most. We must avoid a winter spike which could be worse than the first spike. It’s a horrible situation all round with no easy answers.

By the way the Netherlands prime minister also talked herd immunity except he called it group immunity and there has not been the outrage there. Remember herd immunity is not about letting it rip through the population. Don’t confuse the two. Herd immunity is about letting the population build up innate immunity naturally in the absence of a vaccine. When we get to 65% immunity the virus will be unable to spread. Lockdown is about letting herd immunity happen slowly so we don’t all get it at once and can shield the most vulnerable.

Herd immunity isn’t something to ‘abandon’. It will happen by nature anyway. Until we get a vaccine in which case the vaccine will create the herd immunity.

OP I think Parliament are reconvening by video link next week. I have written to Starmer with questions.

I’ve also written to Harriet Harman as the head of the JCHR. She wrote to Matt Hancock in that capacity asking for questions to be answered yesterday but no doubt he will ignore.

Here’s her letter

publications.parliament.uk/pa/jt5801/jtselect/jtrights/correspondence/200409-Letter-to-Matt-Hancock-regarding-Health-Protection-Coronavirus-Restrictions-England-Regulation-2020.pdf

You might like to read this article about law in the crisis

www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/coronavirus-covid-19-law-parliament-emergency-powers

Do engage with the opposition or people will just assume we’re accepting this.

Some other countries were much more proactive about trying to contain the infection when cases were still low.
Not by immediate, widespread lockdown but by "softer" social distancing combined with targeted restrictions on the contacts of those who had tested positive. Even temperature scanning at airports and workplaces and compelling those with symptoms to stay at home - all far less drastic than full lockdown but prevented an explosion of cases like the UK saw.

The really forward thinking countries also spent this time procuring/producing PPE and medical supplies.

Time will tell but these countries will likely be in full lockdown for a much shorter length of time, suffer fewer economic consequences and lose fewer citizens.

I was not one clamouring for schools to be closed back in January, but there were plenty of other actions that could have been taken much sooner than we took them. We will did very little to contain during the "contain" phase. In fact it seemed that far more effort was spent trying to reassure us that everything was fine than was spent in trying to either prevent or prepare for this catastrophe.
It was not inevitable that we are where we are now.
Herd immunity probably is the only outcome now for the UK now, but it didn't have to be.

Yes PPE availability is unforgivable I agree. This whole thing about temperature scanning at airports tho is pretty useless given the number of people symptomless and with no fever, plus the number who will get through those barriers anyway.

Germany has started to turn their tap on again by loosening restrictions. Angela Merkel herself said 70% of Germans will catch it (read herd immunity). Spain and Italy turning their taps on too. Lots of countries had an explosion of cases. The point is to make sure that explosion stays just below NHS capacity. We also don’t want it too far below NHS capacity because that is simply storing up problems for later and prolonging this whole pandemic.

If you're such an expert and could do better, OP, why haven't you offered your services to the government who don't pull their decisions out of a magician's hat. They rely on the advice of medical and scientific experts who, I am sure would appreciate your expert advice since you think you know it all.

Rishi I know you although I’ve NC

I think that’s unfair

The OP hasn’t made any crazy accusations, just asked reasonable questions, calmly.

The science would be the same whoever was in power.

Also it’s not considered good form to politically point score in a pandemic. Currently we’re seeing Gotcha journalism at its worst.

Rishi, do you honestly believe the government is above criticism?
That we cannot even ask questions?
That the media and opposition should take everything the government say at face value?

I've seen you do the same thing on various threads: You do not even try to dispute the criticisms that people make - you just tell us to shut up!

@bool, I think Germany did (and is doing very well) with testing and isolation. When we were still talking about herd immunity and letting 80% of the population get it. They were doing two level contact isolation and testing. I know someone personally who was quarantined because they had come in contact with someone whose colleague had coronavirus. They were going to test the colleague and if she came positive, they would have tested the people she came in contact with.
Compare that to here, where a teacher in a secondary school near to us had a confirmed case of coronavirus and the school was shut for exactly one day. The kids who were in direct contact with the teacher were also not asked to isolate and we're going to school and roaming the streets as usual.

Thanks @SquishySquirmy and @LilacTree1.
@RishiSunakFanClub, we should all be free to ask questions from the government. I think discussion boards like these are meant for having discussions and that's exactly what I am doing. I am not going to engage with you further on this.

@lockedown yes I agree Germany have done very well with slowing the virus down. But please don’t confuse that with herd immunity. Angela Merkel herself said that 70% of Germans would get the virus. She herself was referencing herd immunity. Germany have kept the spread slower by contact tracing etc. But now they are taking the breaks off again and it will spread again. We cannot confuse the end game of 70% of us needing to be immune (naturally or through a vaccine) and the rate at which we allow that to happen. Germany’s rate was very low. However even thought the UK rate has been higher it hasn’t been so high that it has crashed the NHS yet. Until a vaccine we are going to have to be in and out of lockdown and social distancing to keep the spread under control. But rest assured it will spread.

The main criticism I have with the government is level of testing for front line e workers and to we know if we have had it or not plus PPE provision. That is indeed weird they didn’t prepare for both.

*brakes !

"They need to be asked if they plan to announce the number of deaths from outside hospitals and when. They need to be asked why aren't they able to increase testing like some of the other countries (US, Germany for example). They also need to be asked what THEY are doing to protect the NHS."

They've been asked these questions every day this week, at least, at the daily briefing.

And answered them.

"The main criticism I have with the government is level of testing for front line e workers"

We didn't have a huge diagnostics industry already in place like, for example, Germany. Our problem is scaling up the operation.

OP I've thought of another reason:
We have no parliament currently. So no debates or questioning of the government from other MPs. The normal methods of challenging the government has been interrupted and ministers (like Patel) can just ignore emails and phone calls.

Hopefully a virtual parliament will be up and running soon although it will be fascinating to see how it works: will the speaker be able to "mute" ministers instead of shouting "order"? How to ensure that all sides get as fair amount of speaking time? Will we see a less shouty combative style? Will debates be interrupted by children and pets? Will JRM call in from a chaise loungue or from his bed? Which MP will turn themselves into a potato first? 😁

These tests your saying about, the ones that are in short supply, which magic hat are they in.
The masks that are not available, anywhere in the world, yet you can source them. Wow.
I am sure if Labour have any great ideas on how to do better they have a pipeline into the govenment, to hand over the info.
Also how come... know it alls.... like the OP have not been locked down since the first news came from China.
I mean if your so clever you must have understood this virus and taken action.

Again another poster who just wants people to SHUT UP but cannot engage properly.

Much of the needed PPE is not that complicated to make. We are making it now (at last!) In a "herculean effort". Better late than never I guess.

Oh, so the Government has been doing something. So OP got that wrong, as well

mummy2017 did you read the op or are you confusing this with another thread?

And btw, it is not remotely true that masks "are not available anywhere in the world"
Not all countries are struggling to provide care and medical staff with PPE. Some (Singapore for eg) have even handed them out to every household. Do some research, or in the very least read the op instead of making stuff up.

I consider that a form of "wartime censorship" is in place, whether that is by law or voluntary is unclear.