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Lockdown Lifted Tomorrow...

99 replies

Wowthisisreal · 14/04/2020 18:53

What would you do?

I think the commentary from UK Gov thus far has been fascinating. 4 weeks ago we were encouraged not to go to restaurants etc and to wash our hands more and we were aiming for herd immunity and we were following the best scientific advice and then BAM! If we leave the house more than once a day or we stop in a field and have a sandwich then we're doomed and we're dooming everyone else. Not only that but people are taking it upon themselves (and some police forces are encouraging you) to report anyone who does not comply - with the implication that they are putting others at risk.

How can the gov come back from this unless there is a vaccine? Surely the rhetoric of "stay home. Save lives" is so prevalent that we won't be able to go back to normal? Are we so compliant as a nation that Boris could turn around and say "Ok guys the NHS can cope now - you can go out now" we will just all do it?!

So that's it really... what will it take for you to be ok with going 'back to normal'?

OP posts:
LilacTree1 · 14/04/2020 21:39

I’ve never understood the harshness attached to missing a day of school.

My fear is that this government will keep enough lockdown measures to avoid a protest. Then the Tories will fall and there’ll be an election. At which point, the new bacterial pandemic will arrive.

It’s funny isn’t it - four months on from a landslide victory and they’ve fucked things up spectacularly.

If Johnson was working, I think he’d have considered a u turn and confessed a mistake but now he won’t.

“Follow the science” means “we aren’t taking responsibility for any of our choices”.

I feel so bad for mum. I can’t imagine being her age and staring down this future.

7Days · 15/04/2020 00:54

There's a massive difference between one child falling massively behind her peers, and her entire year group taking a pause, due to an unprecedented set of events that we all are subject to.
If you cant grasp that why would anyone listen to anything else you have to say?

It's almost primeval. People expect governments to have a direct line to the gods of sun and rain to ensure a bountiful harvest. And if Chief wont do Magic Rain Dance it's out of malice. Bash Chief with big stick.

We now know reality is more complicated.

At the moment the tension is between epidemiologists and economists. There is no magic incantation here. It's about balancing hardships based on incomplete information. I'll go so far as to say no government wants their country to collapse. Rate me fuckin optimistic - but they are trying their best, in a fog of uncertainty.

shittingmysel · 15/04/2020 04:11

been told to get in the fucking cupboard for the forseeable future

Made my day I'm stealing that I'm in the fucking cupboard 34weeks Grin

returnofthecat · 15/04/2020 04:40

I think @returnofthecat's post illustrates really well what I mean. A significant proportion of the population is likely to 'drop out' of what we would consider to be a standard working life entirely. It's an interesting outcome in the sense that it challenges the basis of capitalism but as the world isn't set up for it, it's likely to cause huge problems.

@TheDailyCarbuncle Sort of. But in my case, as I pointed out, there's no actual need for me to show my face in the workplace every day. Technology has evolved to point where being physically present is done out of ingrained tradition, rather than necessity.

Many employers have historically resisted mass working from home due to a lack of trust in their employees. Having had no choice but to allow it the last few weeks, I'd like to think many would reconsider their attitude to flexible working.

People are happy with September because the governments of the world have done such a good job of scaring them shitless about the virus that they can't see that lockdown itself has the potential to be far far more deadly than the virus could ever be. [...] The fact that people are not only accepting it but calling for it to be extended makes me wonder just how bad the level of general education is among the population. How can anyone think that literally stopping everything that makes the world function could ever be a positive thing?

Oh, I don't think it's a "positive thing" as such. This country is screwed. I'm not going to get a state pension and I'm going to be working until I drop dead paying an insane rate of income tax and national insurance (they will go up, and they will go up sharply).

And I'm not against a phased return for the people who want to go back out into the world. If they're happy to take the increased risk for what they perceive to be a better quality of life, so be it. The whole point of the lockdown was to buy the NHS some time to regroup as opposed to rule out the risk entirely, so if there's a bunch of people who are happy to take the risk, let them go for it, and get ill in manageable numbers.

I just don't want be part of that phased return, as my appetite for risk is much lower. I'd rather stay at home and reduce my risk, whereas I know many people who would rather have their personal freedoms back and suck up the risk as they believe it's worth it. There are enough people with different opinions to allow for phased a return, I would have thought.

There is no indication that it's even going to be possible to create an effective vaccine.

True. Depressing, but true.

Covid is out there. All we can do is deal with it without creating more problems. Lockdown was necessary because the Tories 1) decimated the NHS and 2) failed completely to even begin to protect the UK from a pandemic, which had long been predicted. The lockdown isn't a sad necessity, it's a complete fuck up and extending it for a second longer than is absolutely necessary in order to minimise the effect of the government's failures would be utter madness.

We have two options, really. Either we hold out for a vaccine (which is unlikely to even happen by September, if at all) or we start going back in a phased programme. I'd say given the number of people who have objected to the lockdown, there will be enough people who want it to end it for a phased programme to be possible. Those people, with a higher appetite for risk, will start to catch COVID-19. The hospitals won't be as swamped, so hopefully most of them will survive. I'd like to hope cases would be documented properly so as to give researchers more data to continue their work into a vaccine.

How can people invest the effort it takes to make a life for themselves if they know the government can come along and just take it all away as if it means nothing?

The repercussions of destroying people's lives and their faith in their own ability to survive and progress will be massive.

Oh, I think we'll continue to make a life for ourselves in the way we feel is the best possible, but I do think expectations will have shifted. Parents are always going to encourage their children to succeed, but given many parents may well have lost someone they know to COVID19 by that time, they may take a more philosophical view to things.

For example, a pushy parent is still likely to insist a child studies hard, but may be more inclined to let a child drop an extracurricular if they aren't enjoying it in favour of something that brings them more joy.

I do think there are some silver linings here in terms of how people have had a good long look at their lives and changed their opinion of what's important.

Of course, this situation is utterly shit for people whose treatment has been pushed back or cancelled, for people whose exams and promotions have been cancelled (it's not just school age pupils who have had a pin put in their progression), for people trying to move, for people trapped in abusive relationships, for people who aren't eligible for furlough and are now flat broke... I could go on. There is a very long list of people who have been so severely impacted by this crisis.

But for people with more standard circumstances, being forced to slow down and reconsider what matters and what doesn't, might help make us a bit less awful as a species. The number of people suddenly offering to help out in mutual aid groups for example is surprising - yes, there are people seeking to exploit the situation, there always are - but it's heartwarming to see how many people are actually capable of being good and willing to do good. This crisis has given them a platform to set up, and they have done.

I would also like to hope that when we are rebuilding our shattered economy, medical professionals and people in actual "useful" professions are finally prioritised. Everyone's going to be poor, but it would be nice if the people helping to keep us alive suffer the least. People have been warning of the NHS being in a dire state for ages, now it's finally been exposed on a worldwide scale and also people's respect and admiration for NHS workers have never been higher. Maybe more funding will continue to be sent to the NHS and we'll make cuts in less important areas.

Some rough sleepers have been housed to minimise the spread of COVID-19 - some of them wouldn't have had access to a safe roof over their heads otherwise. Help has been magicked up and it would be nice to think it might continue.

The whole situation is incredibly shitty overall, but you have to take the little victories where you can find them.

StartupRepair · 15/04/2020 04:54

Interesting discussion. I don't think most people have realised that it will not be about just flicking a switch and going back to our old lives.
I'm in Australia. We're doing quite well here apart from one disaster where literally 100s of infected people were let off a cruse ship in downtown Sydney with no checks...
But I think we are wondering what will happen next and getting very mixed messages. No-one has openly said what our strategy actually is.

Shitsgettingcrazy · 15/04/2020 05:43

How is no one questioning the impact to our economy?

In my experience people are questioning it. However, on mn they get slapped down and called 'murderers' and told they 'are part of the problem' and 'you clearly value money over lives'. All by an extremely vocal sizable amount of posters.

They wont accept, a knackered economy will lead to deaths. Some people currently not getting treatment at the moment, will die. That some people are currently dying because they arent seeking medical help now. Or that we are heading for a huge mental health crisis. Physical health always tops mental health, apparantly.

These are the same posters that spread the 'you cant buy luxury items at the supermarket' and 'just because you can exercise, doesnt mean you should. You dont need to and doing so makes you a super spreader'

These people also genuinely believe that if everybody locked down completely, it would be over quicker.

PhilCornwall1 · 15/04/2020 06:07

What would you do?

I'd go straight back to normal. To be honest, I'd have no worry about being around people now.

When this effort is lifted, the virus won't have disappeared, it'll still be out there. I can foresee real employment and school issues. People too terrified to go back to the office and then given ultimatums by their employer to either get in the office or be dismissed for gross misconduct. Parents being penalised because their children aren't at school.

The continually terrified are going to have problems I think.

Cary2012 · 15/04/2020 06:57

I think mass testing would be the only thing that would reassure many people and by the way the testing is going (only 14k yesterday, mid April when Hancock said a 100k per day by end of month) that's a hell of a way off.
I'm a teacher, and am very certain I had the virus late Feb/early March, but the not knowing is unsettling and worrying.
I also work for a Trust that takes a very dim view of sick days off, I was called in by HR for having two separate days off in a 3 month period, one for an ear infection and the other a UTI. So say I go back, and get a cold, like we all do. If, without a test, I stay at home for 7 days I'd get hauled over the coals.

Testings the key, because everyone without a test would assume they had Covid, take time off to be safe, and sickness absence would go through the roof, not just people working in schools but everywhere.

So I think until we have the widespread testing, we won't be confident to go to work, carry on working through a cold as we used to,

Monty27 · 15/04/2020 07:07

You won't be sending me out in a hurry just cos they're shitting themselves about being exposed as a government who has massively undercut all public services.
Hell rub it up them but I'm staying in in Angry Angry

VivaLeBeaver · 15/04/2020 07:09

I’ve been told to work from home until sept. So I’d carry on being a hermit and hope by sept there’s herd immunity!

feelingnervousnow · 15/04/2020 07:28

It must be nice to have the kind of job where you can sit at home and wait for herd immunity.
Unfortunately some of us don’t have that option and have been working with no protection or option of social distancing throughout. (early years teacher).
Not having a go at those people, it just must be nice.

Pelleas · 15/04/2020 07:30

I think it will be phased and be something like -

  1. Non-essential shops and services reopen, but not entertainment and leisure venues where people congregate.
  2. Rules on leaving the house relaxed but gatherings of more than 2 still banned and 2 metre social distancing to remain in place.
  3. Schools reopen (may be dependent on whether this falls in usual holiday period)
  4. Pubs, cafes and restaurants reopen but expected to observe preventative measures.
  5. All rules removed

I also think there might be back-and-forths in the above list, guided by infection levels and seasonal considerations - i.e. to avoid a spike in winter.

Bool · 15/04/2020 07:45

As lockdown is relaxed it is going to be interesting to watch how we all fare by region. So for instance watching London -which has been widely affected - vs other parts of the country which has been less affected. If immunity happens then in theory it will quicken up much less in London and more elsewhere.

Pelleas · 15/04/2020 07:52

What the government will need to avoid is everyone going mad all at once - you can imagine a scenario where, the day after lockdown is cancelled, there are mass, drink-fuelled parties in public places which would not only make a new spike in infections more likely but also create public order problems. The easing of restrictions will need to be gradual, like letting steam out of a boiler slowly to stop it exploding.

tontie · 15/04/2020 08:06

It must be nice to have the kind of job where you can sit at home and wait for herd immunity.

I think this could cause a lot of resentment tbh particularly those who want to do it until a vaccine. In order for someone to stay at home they very much depend on others not staying at home eg food workers, deliveries, utilities, etc

Hippywannabe · 15/04/2020 08:14

I think that there is a vast proportion of people who think that the virus will disappear when lockdown ends. They simply cannot grasp the fact that lockdown happened to help the NHS manage the cases over a much longer period.
People will still be dying in September unless a miraculous vaccine is provided. There now seems to be cases of people who previously have had the virus becoming reinfected. Tests are being rushed through laboratories at an unbelievable speed.
6 months ago, if you were offered a vaccine that had been 'discovered' within 3 months instead of the usual 5 or 6 years of trials, would you have even considered taking it?
Testing for antibodies isn't reliable and the advisors are right when they say a bad test is not acceptable.
My personal opinion is that we will get a 3 week extension on lockdown, followed by either another 3 week one or a slight relaxing of the rules. There is a bank holiday weekend at the beginning of May, I think they will be looking to see if there are spikes then which would be from people flouting lockdown over Easter and then again at Whitsun, which would be 3 weeks after the first May bank holiday.
I fully expect to be back in school full time after the Whit break and at that point there is no point in having social distancing rules, children and staff can't maintain that in a crowded classroom, parents will mingle on the playground and on the walk to and from school etc.
I will carry on protecting myself as much as possible, no unnecesary trips out, insisting on handwashing, coughing into elbows etc, keeping a distance as much as I can.
However, people need to get their heads around the fact that people are still going to catch this and not start complaining about the government as soon as figures continue to be high.

Wowthisisreal · 15/04/2020 08:18

@vivalabeaver how will there be herd immunity if we are all social distancing and staying inside until then?

OP posts:
PhilCornwall1 · 15/04/2020 08:32

how will there be herd immunity if we are all social distancing and staying inside until then?

People are now stopping doing this around here. Between 6:15am and now, I have counted over 30 cars go past my house. Pretty much all small business owners have started again. 2 are self employed builders. Just seen a bathroom fitter go in a house down the road and couple of local garden maintenance people too.

The traffic wasn't nowhere near like this over the last 3 weeks, so certainly not all of these are "key workers".

Rightly or wrongly, people are starting back up again as they need money.

Bexta147 · 15/04/2020 08:38

I’d be happy to go back to ‘normal’ although I don’t think things will ever fully be what we thought of as normal before all this happened.
I have two vulnerable members in my family, (one over 70, one who has been having treatment for cancer) I would continue to distance myself from them for as long as needed and any other vulnerable or elderly people I could.

I just want to sit and have a coffee and a rant with my friend, I want to visit my parents, my children want to see their friends, I want to get back to the gym and my running club, it’s not the same doing it by yourself.

My mental health has taken a pretty huge hit and I also worry about the effect long term this will have on my children.

I’m hoping after the next three weeks we will have at least some idea of what is going to happen and when things will start to be lifted. I know a lot of the schools around here have been told to expect a June return although this is subject to change if needs be.

WanderingLost167 · 15/04/2020 09:01

I'd go back to normal ASAP. The reality is people will keep dying from this, I don't see any option going forward where that's not going to happen.

feesh · 15/04/2020 09:11

I think a vaccine is actually going to be produced a lot more quickly than we were expecting. The resources being thrown at it are immense, because literally the entire world’s economy is resting on it. There is a huge global movement to get this into production ASAP and I do think it’s realistic to expect one by the end of this year.

Yes, it’s unprecedented, but the will is strong.

TheDailyCarbuncle · 15/04/2020 09:12

@Feesh the issue may not be funding or will, it may be that a vaccine just isn't possible.

CaptainMarvelDanvers · 15/04/2020 09:17

I think people will start to see social distancing as the norm for the forseeable future....

Yesterday was the first time I went out (aside from the 1 dog walk per day) since a few days before official lockdown. I needed to go to pharmacy and co-op. It’s actually made me really resentful.

Yes a lot of people are adhering to social distancing, but in the small town I live in - aside from the betting shops and hairdressers being closed, you wouldn’t know there was a pandemic. I thought people were exaggerating on the local Facebook group. I don’t give a shit if I get the virus or not, the chances of it seriously affecting me would be slim. The depression, stress and probable lack of job is what will kill me.
Do the small congregation of old women stopping to chat in the middle of co-op give a shit though? No, do they bollocks.

Yes I know I’m being unreasonable and selfish. But I honestly felt yesterday, what is the point. Let it rip through the population. Some people will die and some won’t - it’s horrible and shit but that’s life.

PhilCornwall1 · 15/04/2020 09:21

Yes I know I’m being unreasonable and selfish. But I honestly felt yesterday, what is the point. Let it rip through the population. Some people will die and some won’t - it’s horrible and shit but that’s life.

I agree with this I'm afraid. I think in the end this needs to happen. I'd be one of the dead ones, but you are right, that's life. I'm happy to take that risk.

Amazed what was happening at your local co-op. It's one out one in at ours.

CaptainMarvelDanvers · 15/04/2020 09:39

@philcornwall1
It’s not a large co-op either, they had the stickers on the floors. I was playing dodge the person and keep the distance, everyone including staff were doddling along like normal. It’s a small ex mining town though, everyone knows everyone - I can’t explain how I think that affects the mindset but I think it does. I always say the place lives in a bubble and this has just confirmed it.

My mum would probably die if she got it, she’s had pneumonia twice in the past...even she is starting to think along the same lines. I haven’t told her what I think though, sounds a bit shit to tell your mum that if she dies she dies.

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