The brewing scandal that could bring the government down

[vera99]

The British public are being lied to by the Boris Johnson government over its handling of COVID-19, the scale of related fatalities and subsequent fallout. As the death rate escalates and Britain rapidly rises in the chart of deaths-per-million, currently 7th in the world and fifth in numbers, the government is now looking to deny, cover-up or spin its trail of failure.

truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/the-brewing-scandal-that-could-bring-the-government-down/

this government will only become more popular over the coming months

Will no doubt find a huge sum of money to put in the NHS pot

Led by Boris the survivor

Maybe he shall do a Macron (I’m sure watching with close interest how he French have responded) and apologise saying they or rather he could have made sure the uk was better prepared

So quite the opposite op still keep dreaming

My issue with the death rates is that the ones shown in the graphs are hospital deaths apparently. And this is internationally agreed. Surely a country with a full NHS, in which anyone can receive treatment despite not putting in a single penny, is going to have more patients hospitalised. Because other countries where you have to pay, or have insurance, will have patients who simply can’t afford medical treatment and therefore die at home.
So surely that affects the figures?

Yawn

Can't get rid of the government.

No majority for a vote of no confidence

No election for another four years.

Can't have an election anytime soon because of social distancing laws.

Can't protest because gatherings of more than two people are unlawful.

Also, bullshit source material full of hearsay and conjecture to snare the terminally gullible.

How can you bring the government down, OP?

They are a democratically elected party with a large majority. They only way they would fail is if enough Tory MP’s left the party to become, most likely, independent MP’s, and the government couldn’t govern and would call a GE.

This isn’t going to happen. The Tory ship isn’t sinking so the rats are staying put.

If there are legal issues surrounding certain people’s responsibilities and their abject failure to ensure the safety of the population, that could be challenged in a criminal case, is totally different and there are enough other Tory MP’s who could hold a majority.

The Queen won’t call for a GE because it would be totally outside her constitutional remit.

Other than revolution, I can’t see how the government could fall.

I thought there was no magic money tree, as a recent Tory PM said to a nurse on live TV? Good job on the rail nationalisation, though.

@Mintychoc1, I don’t know the details for most countries health care provision. But if you look above, I posted some info on Germany’s predominantly non profit health insurance healthcare which provides a universal, comprehensive care service where almost nobody (less than 0.1 percent of the population as of 2015) lacks health insurance.

I believe France’s system too provides almost complete universal healthcare. So for those two countries people are getting comprehensive healthcare as in UK even if their structures are different.

Mintychoc1
Nope, if you are over 75 or with a pre existing condition, you have very little chance of being admitted.
Last thing the NHS wants is already frail patients blocking ventilators.
You will die at home.
Your death wont be included in the stats.

serin as a GP I’ve got a fairly good idea of which patients are being admitted to hospital.

feodora. 0.1 % of 83 million is a lot of people whose health care isn’t covered.

MIntychoc1 I had no idea that the hospital only death rates was internationally agreed. It does explain America's apparently very low death rates though.

sedona I didn’t know either until the press conference yesterday. I think they said that the total death rate was published, but the graphs they all use are the hospital deaths.

The British public are being lied to by the Boris Johnson government

So what?

I've been hearing that Boris Johnson is a liar from various left wing and/or Remainer quarters virtually daily for the last three years. It's like white noise now.

Mintychoc1 so where are the proper death rates published? Personally I would like to see our government adjust the graphs to show the proper death and infection rates per day. I know that some of the figures are from the last two weeks, but presumably that means that the current daily rates aren't really known for another two weeks also? I just think that it would be helpful to know if our rates really are going up or down.

I also think that what now seems like a competition between countries to have the lowest reported rate is ridiculous. Every covid death should be reported just to show everyone (including China) what devastation they have caused the populations of the world.

Feodora - I think Germany pursued a route of testing, tracing and isolating and it seems to have been successful. But there were questions just 3 weeks ago as to whether even their system would be able to cope with this pandemic. www.spiegel.de/international/germany/the-big-wave-of-corona-cases-will-hit-german-hospitals-in-10-to-14-days-a-45cd754c-e179-4dbb-8caf-8f6074e641cf

Look at ons for deaths outside hospital it's been said loads of times on here and mentioned in daily briefings . Lack of ppe is worldwide look a other nations also having problems . Same old thread appearing just different name and as this one mentioned brewing so looked as thought was beer related too but yet again just should of could if reporting

Mintychoc1 so where are the proper death rates published?

Short answer - they aren't, really.

Which isn't entirely true.

The NHS publish figures every day which give the number of hospital deaths reported to them so far, and allocate them to the day the person died. However, they are still getting in reports of deaths that happened last month, so the figures are not accurate - and are England only. I think Scotland has something similar, but I am not sure about Wales or NI.

The ONS publish numbers of deaths registered each week in England and Wales. However, this again is subject to a significant lag, and can be inaccurate if registration of death has been delayed.

There is no one single number published anwhere that is complete and accurate for the entire UK.

so where are the proper death rates published? Personally I would like to see our government adjust the graphs to show the proper death and infection rates per day.

Infection rate simply reflects testing rate so is pretty meaningless and best ignored.

Death rate? What do you mean by this? Deaths FROM Covid? That is difficult to tell as many people have underlying conditions which may have been the actual cause of death. Deaths WITH Covid? Any this reflects testing and as mostly done in hospital only vaguely accurate for deaths in hospital. Deaths where covid is mentioned on the death certificate? Given that even the majority of those tested in hospital as symptomatic still test negative whoever filled in the death certificate cannot know if they actually had covid (or if they didn't). Rise in deaths against a baseline (eg same time last year); we would need to be sure other factors are not involved such as flu, temperature etc. Even then the rise in deaths may only be indirectly ascribed to covid as may be due to eg lockdown instead.

@thatgingergirl, yes, they have done much more testing than UK. My comment was just sharing in response to mintychoc’s comment that apart from 0.1% of the population (which mintychoc has since pointed out is 85,000 people) there is universal health care for Germany.

Two interesting graphs from ONS tweeted by a Financial Times editor illustrating scale of CV death rates compared to standard flu epidemics in London and England and Wales in the last few years.

feodora, 0.1 % of 83 million is a lot of people whose health care isn’t covered.

@Mintychoc1 true, that would be 83,000 uninsured in Germany. If 80% of the 83,000 became infected eventually and we use an estimated 1% death rate (know might turn out to be lower) that would mean 664 deaths, so for Germany at least that wouldn’t be many extra dying at home.

OP thanks for the article. It all stands up and brings together many things that have been reported over the weeks.

I agree it is scandalous and shocking. Although I believe this thread is more so. Imagine a government is so incompetent that it's actions (or lack of it) causes 100s of people to die a day. And then when it is brought to light people are scornful.

It won't bring down the government. The press are too powerful and too right wing. Through this and brexit, I am learning in the UK a large enough proportion of the population is also too right wing.

Really really sad. I just prey for my elderly grandma and hope she isn't one of the ones in a nursing home who dies outside of hospital (chocking on the pus from your lungs - or similar - it certainly isn't passing peacefully in your sleep with relatives holding your hand).

A lot of residents in nursing homes don’t want to go to hospital, ever. They know that hospital = interventions, busy wards, noise, strangers, unfamiliar surroundings, carers they don’t know , and with absolutely no guarantee of clinical improvement. Often they prefer to stay where they are, being kept comfortable, which is completely possible with adequate doses of morphine. So I think it’s wrong to imply that all nursing home residents are being denied hospital treatment that they want.

kept comfortable, which is completely possible with adequate doses of morphine.

Who gives them morphine? Are sick residents linked up with drivers to administer morphine?

I’m confused.
Care homes have staff working in them. They administer the drugs.