Moving from one empty house to another

[ImaPinkToothbrush]

I would like some common sense opinions on this.

My partner and I both live separately, 20 miles apart. In normal life we essentially live 'together' in each other's houses, switching between the two.

DP is a key worker doing sporadic shifts. We've both been entirely isolating since before the lockdown other than when DP is at work, the only person I've had close contact with is DP. We have no children. We live rurally, so when at home we go for walks, where we often see no one, occasionally walk past another walker. That's it. We touch nothing when we are out walking, we are extremely careful.

We both have elderly vulnerable parents who live near our respective homes, so we have been their primary source of deliveries - online groceries are impossible to get. So they have been relying on us to do their shopping for them.

We were at my house when lockdown was announced, so we stayed at mine. However, DP then needed a prescription urgently, so we travelled to his town to collect it - rather than doubling the travel by returning to my house, we stayed at his house until he went to work, then self isolated at his house for a week after he had finished work. During that time we took a delivery to his parents - keeping a large distance between us in the garden.

Then my family needed prescriptions and groceries, so we did the same for them and again decided to miminise the travel by locking down at my house for a week. However, my family have been extremely critical of me moving between two houses like this.

Our community have been extremely vocal about second home owners coming to stay on holiday - there has been some very unpleasant stuff on social media. And I completely agree that people shouldn't be doing that. However the reasons that people shouldn't come to their second homes are that they could be bringing infection from another area to our community, they are putting added pressure on our small grocery shop, they belong to a different health board so are putting additional pressure on our stretched resources. Those issues simply don't apply here because I already live here and am just moving between two empty houses within the same health board area, using the same grocery store for both houses. The infection transmission risk in doing what I'm doing is minimal.

My mother says she fully understands that we are minimizing risk, but she believes that the rules are the rules and I shouldn't be driving. We fell out over it yesterday and it has really upset me. DP is currently at work, so we're going to lockdown at his house once he's home to minimise risk to anyone else. My mother told me I should stay there for the duration of the lockdown now.

I simply can't see how what I'm doing in any way increases risk.

I actually think what you've doing is fine.

Your mum sounds like a bit of a hypocrite: happy for you to get her groceries and prescriptions, and happy for your cousin to run around bringing her things, including flowers! ... but sniping at your staying at your BF's house near the store, when you were living together and isolating together from the beginning?

It sounds odd because of the distances involved. Most people don't have to drive 20 miles to their nearest supermarket.

You may have to, but if you don't, you should be going to your nearest one rather then making an unnecessarily long journey

That's kind of my point. DPs house is near the supermarket, mine isn't. Hence we are cutting down on the journeys by not doing return trips from my place.

I still don't see why you both don't stay in your own houses and shop for your own parents. As far as I can understand it, you are increasing yours and therefore your parents risk (and therefore a risk of generally spreading the virus further) because he goes out to work so surely he is coming into contact with other people.

I think what you are doing is fine, it’s looking at the point of the restriction not just the letter of what the restriction says.

I have a similar set up with a long term partner who I don't live with, we haven't seen each other (except on a screen!) since lockdown started.

It sounds like you live really rurally and I don't think you are doing anything wrong, especially if this is the trip you would be making to get food. However, if your DP is happy for you to stay at his, and your DM is getting her needs met via your cousin, I'd be tempted just to stay at his.

Prescriptions can get sent electronically to your nearest chemist. Or are you saying that your nearest chemist is 20 miles away as well? Tbh, I would be shopping in a local shop and staying put. Anyone gojng out to work is risking themselves every day, let alone people they live with.

Prescriptions can get sent electronically to your nearest chemist. Or are you saying that your nearest chemist is 20 miles away as well

No we collect prescriptions directly from the GP, which is in a village near my parents. So if I stay near parents, I can pop out for prescription but still have to travel further to supermarket.

DPs prescription was likewise at his GP in his village. Hence the need to travel to his to collect his medication.

But I am completely isolated - I haven't been within 50 metres of another human being other than DP for 4 weeks.
Ffs, you are really getting on my nerves now. It doesn't matter that you have not physically been in contact with another human being - your DP has been in contact with others at work and maybe on the way to work or back. Fuelling his car? You are also at risk from every person your DP has been in contact with.

Not everyone with CV has symptoms. If your DP is in contact with someone at work who has CV and is asymptomatic, then he could develop symptoms. He could even die from CV. However, he could also contract CV and not show symptoms himself. He could pass this on to you and you could have CV and either be asymptomatic, have mild symptoms, severe symptoms or even die of CV. You don't seem to understand that you are at risk from people your DP is in contact with.

CV had been shown to travel 13 feet (4 metres) so if you come within 4 metres of your parents or his then they are also at risk from you. Do you stand this far away from them?

Btw, are you really moving between two empty homes per your title? Sounds a bit odd to me. It also sounds odd that you can manage to misinterpret the suggestion that partners could consider moving in together as being able to just share your individual houses at convenient times.

You have already said My partner and I both live separately and told us how you spend time at each other's home so why are you suddenly classing this as living together?

Your DM is correct and she probably wants you to stay at your DP's because she's frightened of the risk to her. (I agree she is stupid to consider your cousin to be any less of a risk though).

It sounds like you live really rurally and I don't think you are doing anything wrong, especially if this is the trip you would be making to get food. However, if your DP is happy for you to stay at his, and your DM is getting her needs met via your cousin, I'd be tempted just to stay at his.

I think I'll have to. My cousin still has to make the same trip to do a bigger shop, which is the irony! But there is a small shop nearer that does bread & milk etc. They'll just have to cope with that

Breaks my heart a bit - I've done everything I can to help them, and been so careful to minimise risk. But they essentially told me I'm not welcome back.

@NotEverythingIsBlackandwhite

Yes I'm fully aware of how the virus can be transmitted. My answer was in response to someone questioning whether I was self-isolating. I am - DP isn't, obviously, when he's at work.

CV had been shown to travel 13 feet (4 metres) so if you come within 4 metres of your parents or his then they are also at risk from you. Do you stand this far away from them?

Yes - absolutely. I deliver stuff to their door, then move back to the car when they open the door.

Btw, are you really moving between two empty homes per your title? Sounds a bit odd to me.

Yes we are - why is that odd? Neither of us have children

"are "self-isolating" then go on to say things like other than when DP is at work."

"I haven't been within 50 metres of another human being other than DP for 4 weeks."

Your DP is a clear source of potential infection, because he goes out to work !

So you are bringing possible infection with each journey between homes
If you were both WFH and only having shopping delivered, it would be different

As it is:
You are breaking the rules
Your journeys are not essential
and you are not transporting children between RP and NRP

(re children, this is accepting a higher risk in order to offset possible psychological harm to some children from not seeing one parent for several weeks - so a decision for parents to make)

If you genuinely live in different homes, then you and your DP are not in one household

The rules are "do not mix households"

Yes I'm aware DP is exposed.

So you are bringing possible infection with each journey between homes

Bringing infection to whom? An empty house?

The rules are "do not mix households"

Households means people in the house. Do not mix households when meeting out for a walk, or going into other people's homes for example. If you understand that to mean that people from different houses must not mix - that makes perfect sense.

Ok, for starters, your mother is being ungrateful & a hypocrite. Let her sort herself out if she prefers your cousin & kids running around after her. 🙄🙇🏻‍♀️

However, surely YOUR risk would be less if you stayed at your house and only went shopping once a fortnight & observed social distancing?!

Your DP is working so he's the biggest risk factor here.

It's not about where you sleep it's about spending time with him. Surely?

Yes you're minimising the travel, but I can't see how you think you're minimising your risk?

Can you explain what I've missed?

(My SO & I live less then half a mile apart, but I haven't seen him since the 18th of March

Yes we are, but we have no choice but to deliver them groceries like many other key workers have to.

But only your dp is a key worker. If you stop what you are doing then you are protecting yourself and your parents.

It's really not that difficult - you are creating unnecessary risk all around you and refuse to believe it. You shouldn't be seeing your dp. Full stop. Live in your own home and provide support to your vulnerable family members as needed.

Anything else is 'the rules don't apply to me' trying to find ways around it. You are the exact reason the police have to have powers to control the population.

@BestOption

It must be hard, I completely sympathise. It must have been a difficult decision for you both, but I can see why you made it.

You're right of course, it would completely minimise my risk if I stayed away from DP entirely for the duration of the pandemic (not just lockdown - the risk remains once lockdown is lifted). We made the decision not to do that, but to combine our lives in the same way that other couples have, given that we have lived together for over a year now in this way so our lives were already combined.

So you're right, it's certainly not 'better' to do this - obviously it's better from a risk management view to separate. But the same would be true for families of other keyworkers who happened to own a second home. Some I know have indeed done this, taken their entire family away from their keyworker husbands or wives for the duration where that keyworker is very exposed or where the family are vulnerable. This isn't the case for DP and I - he's not very exposed, but he does have to to go work, and I'm not vulnerable. So we decided to continue as one household.

So yes, there is a risk to me in living with DP. But I don't think we are increasing that risk in any way by us staying in one house for one week as a buffer after DP returns from work, and another house while DP isn't at work.

You are the exact reason the police have to have powers to control the population.

We're not breaking the law. We are sticking to it entirely. No unnecessary journeys (in fact I'm minimizing our journeys further), no mixing of households (people).

NotEverythingIsBlackandWhite:
Btw, are you really moving between two empty homes per your title? Sounds a bit odd to me.

Yes we are - why is that odd? Neither of us have children
We obviously have different ideas of what the term "empty house" means. The term usually refers to a house which is devoid of furniture/vacant/unoccupied.
I have never heard the term used before in reference to not having children.

We obviously have different ideas of what the term "empty house" means. The term usually refers to a house which is devoid of furniture/vacant/unoccupied.
I have never heard the term used before in reference to not having children

Ah ok yeah I mean empty of people! I have furniture! But there's no one else using the houses other than us.

You have made the decision to continue living with DP as one household so I think what you are doing is within guidance.

I wouldn't bother asking anyone again as you have assessed the risk to yourself and wider family, and others will always have their own views.

I'm going to his house today which is technically the first non-essential journey I will have made.

Then later... We're not breaking the law. We are sticking to it entirely. No unnecessary journeys (in fact I'm minimizing our journeys further), no mixing of households (people).

But you are though aren't you. You can be fined for non essential journeys thus breaking the law. My point earlier stands - you don't believe the rules apply to you and want a tonne of people to justify your actions which you know are wrong or you wouldn't have come here asking.

I'm equally surprised your dp isn't protecting you either, given most of the risk comes from him.

You are both being very irresponsible and causing the exact set of risks the government is trying avoid.

You are simply not following the guidelines. Moving between two houses. Not allowed.

Updated Government Guidance

Decide what you think is a risk and then do exactly as you please.

As many have already pointed out, your partner is your biggest risk of exposure. You are not self isolating whatever you may think.