Ethics of home delivery of non essentials.

[Snaleandthewhail]

Next isn’t delivering. Other major retailers have reduced their range and delayed their delivery times. But there’s a lot of stuff you can still order for home delivery.

If a company is trading and open and delivering, is it ethical to use its services to deliver non essential things which put more risk on to everyone involved in fulfilment and logistics?

I’m obviously not talking about food or medicines. Then there’s a whole range of consumables-but-not-essentials (paint and glue at the moment for my kids). But say - the new flat pack bed you’d been meaning to buy for your child growing out of their cot, or the set of saucepans you’d been saving up for. Stuff you would have bought, could still buy, but could wait six months...

Ethically it's keeping people in work and the economy going.
I would question buying non essentials myself as with the recession that's going to hit, and nobodies job being safe, I may regret non essential buys.

I've ordered what could probably be classed as non-essential but stuff that I do need - a new mattress ad the baby is mohing into the bigger cot, sandals for the toddler, hats and suncream for them both and some gardening equipment.

I also bought some printed tshirts from a seller on ebay - I messaged first to ask if they were still making/posting and they replied that it's their only source of income at the moment so are relying on sales.

Absolutely, keeps the economy going and some people in jobs. Some people rely on online companies right now.

It's DD's birthday and she really wants an LOL doll. I couldn't justify ordering just one of those bloody stupid things so I ordered it from Argos along with some summer clothes for DS as he's totally outgrown last years and desperately needs something cool to wear in this heat, so I felt OK about that.

And they've split the order, the clothes have arrived already. The LOL doll is coming all on its own! I feel really embarrassed knowing I'm going to receive a parcel of just one sodding LOL doll.

It's interesting how quickly we can change our mindset on this stuff isn't it? I mean, ultimately the problem we're dealing with isn't a one off pandemic, it's the excesses of capitalism - globalisation makes pandemics much more likely (e.g. through deforestation driving animals from their natural habitat making it more likely ones with obscure diseases will infect humans, and global travel making the spread of it easy).

If we're to tackle climate change in any serious way we need to stop our consumption levels don't we? We need to all be thinking - WTF do I need a LOL doll for anyway?

I agree with PPs the answer is to shop local (even if online). Next time, no LOL Doll!

My inbox is full of emails telling me about Easter sales and offers, big companies are actively encouraging us to order online, local companies are diversifying into delivery services, I'm not forcing them to do it. I've ordered a few DIY items and some skincare.

@perniciousdot where did you see Next was reopening next week? I work for them and have heard nothing about this!

I’ve been wondering too.

I’m still ordering from Amazon — but almost all food as I’m vulnerable and we’re trying to avoid the supermarket.

Amazon being Amazon things tend to arrive in dribs and drabs on different dates. Last week when I had some canned vegetables delivered in my front foyer/parcel alcove the delivery driver SLAMMED the front door very heavily.

It may have been unintentional. But I couldn’t help wondering if I’d had too many deliveries and he/she was pissed off? 🤷‍♀️

I just googled Next reopening and it looks like they are going to have a limited offering with a small number of staff in the warehouse

There isn’t going to be a bottomless pit if money, so the government still needs to revive money, via taxes.

Please remember this if you are buying from Amazon who have never paid one penny in tax to the uk government.

The way I see it, if the government thought that keeping delivery places open was a risk to what they are trying to achieve with the lockdown, they would force them to close.

If the decision is they should be kept open, then using those services if you want to order stuff will help keep the economy from tanking. I’m buying the kind of stuff I’d shop for or would order online anyway.

It’s DD’s birthday at the end of the month. With all the shit she’s having to go through, I refuse to have her go without gifts. We’ve got time on our hands so can do the stuff we’d planned around the house. We’ll buy what we need online.

This whole thing is bad enough with people spying on you for what you do outside your home, questioning your motives, is it essential blah blah, I’ll be fucked if I’m about to let people do the same for what we choose to do in our own homes.

Please remember this if you are buying from Amazon who have never paid one penny in tax to the uk government.

No matter where you buy from, you pay VAT.

where did you see that Next is reopening again please?

I cant see anything in the media and the Next website says it remains closed till further notice. Can you say what paper you read it in please.

where did you see Next was reopening next week? I work for them and have heard nothing about this!

Again, it has been widely reported today.

No matter where you buy from, you pay VAT.

Well yes, and the staff will be paying income tax on their wages, but that doesn’t excuse Amazon from paying their taxes.

@WhatsTheFrequencyKennneth The Express have reported that Next will be reopening next week as employees have asked to go back apparently.

I think it's a tricky one
Like I haven't ordered any clothes but I have ordered books to read because I want something to keep me occupied. As someone said yesterday if your kettle broke would ordering a new one be essential? Because on the face of it it's not but if coffee and tea are then so is a kettle

Ah just saw it in the Sun that they plan to open a streamlined online service with 3000 staff who've volunteered.
Thanks @perniciousdot. Not a word to store employees so good to find this out from you!

@perniciousdot thanks for your reply. I just wanted to know which paper had mentioned it. Have looked online and found out. Thanks

We knew it was coming and ordered stuff before lockdown to ensure we had non-essentials.

We have therefore bought a lot less than we normally would.

Where we have ordered stuff, we've made a point of trying where ever possible to order locally rather than from large firms with big warehouses as it's supporting more businesses and going back into the local economy (where its actually taxed) and we know the staff are looked after.

A friend delivered a loaf of bread at the weekend as she asked if anyone needed anything, and she was going anyway for herself and her mum. Rather than go to the shops just for that we took her up on the offer even though that means one of us passed up the opportunity to leave the house for a while. Thus saving contact with someone in a supermarket.

I think there are ways you can do things which are better and minimise contact without forcing everything to shut and without putting others at increased unnecessary risk.

It's just a question of thinking about this better.

One challenge I'm finding good is improving with what we have rather than resorting to buying something new as its 'easier'. That's a habit I want to keep tbh.

*improvising.

@ModernMilli thanks

Buying whatever I can get my hands on.

Order as much as you want, we need to keep the economy going, otherwise it's going to be shit for us and our children in the future.
There is a balance.

It's still the case that the vast majority of people who get coronavirus will get a mild case as long as we shield the ill and elderly (and ensure that there is enough PPE for NHS and social care workers). We have been staying at home to help the NHS to prepare for more cases not to stop them altogether - which we can't do until there is a vaccine.

Who gets to decide what is “essential” though? I had to order tampons from amazon when Tesco’s has the shelves cleared- they’re pretty essential to me. If someone’s bed broke and they had to order a new flat pack one, isn’t that essential? Or should they be sleeping on the floor?
What about makeup?- not technically essential but in lockdown ordering something to cheer you up when your mental health is at rock bottom could be seen as essential.
Bottom line for me is- ordering online keeps businesses going and it’s really up to them to work out the logistics of distancing etc.
I can only be responsible for myself and my own actions. I cannot be responsible for every single online business or control what they choose to do.
If every person acted responsibly we would be in a great place to fight the virus.

If Amazon was only delivering essentials then they would save money and not deliver anything.

Garden lights, office supplies and summer clothes for ds this week. All from tax paying UK based businesses.

I am sticking to the rules and that entails sacrifices. However, we need a world to come back to and the chances are most of us will catch it at some point. So I am happy to keep spending my income, while it is still coming in, on businesses that are allowed to operate. I wouldn’t buy from ASOS, Sports Direct, Amazon or any of the others that have shown themselves to care more about profits than people but there has to be a balance. I asked the delivery driver the other day how he felt about it and his view was that he was extremely glad of the money and it kept him off universal credit.