Dp's exw is refusing us access to his kids - realistically when do you think lockdown will be over?

[WhichWitchOfTheWest]

I have namechanged for this

Dp's exw decided at the start that she wanted dp's kids with her no matter what. There are no vulnerable people in either side of the family, but she decided only she could look after them and she was convinced we were not as careful as her (which is v unfair).

My employer actually let me work from home a week before lockdown and dp runs his business from home (which he can't work on in lockdown anyway as it's related to retail). One of my dcs is at school so at home and one at university but she came back to stay with me.

First of all she insisted we totally isolate for 14 days before we had them, which we did (the first 2 weeks of lockdown), then when we were due to have them, she announced the eldest had a cough so it would not be safe to swap. We speak every night to dp's dcs and never heard her cough.

It seems clear she is going to keep finding excuses. Dp is utterly devastated. It was his birthday too in lockdown and he was in tears about not seeing his dcs. We usually see them once during the week and on the weekend.

We have spoken to our lawyer but he said because she keeps making up ill health the only way to disprove it is to get a doctor to confirm the kids are ok and no doctor can do that at the moment. He has written her a legal letter and she has totally ignored it.

I am trying to keep dp's spirits up but I think realistically, we are only going to get to see them after lockdown and even then, I can see her still insisting we aren't as careful as her fgs so when do you think lockdown will be over and we will be able to see them again?

I can’t believe some of the comments on this thread. If op and her dh are both wfh, mixing the households poses a small risk.

It’s difficult to look at the mortality rate and not batten down the hatches for the time being and I think a lot of ex couples are getting on with that regardless of whether the rp is the mother or father.

No bitterness on my end, thankfully my ex is nothing like this awful man.
Any projection will be the family members I have lost to this virus.

I just can’t believe there are people who disregard their children’s health and a whole pandemic to score points, it’s revolting.

The mother is clearly terrified and has concerns about DC cough. Rather than be a decent human being this man sets solicitors on her. Truly gross.

@WhichWitchOfTheWest truly, there are some horrible and wholly irrational people on this thread. 💐. And I think if this is an indication of the likely mindset then I’d get him to press on with a solicitor’s letter.

Its not an anti men or anti NRP attitude its that the majority of parents put their kids first and are willing to sacrifice contact which is not essential to life fgs to keep their kids safe.

There are mums I know who have moved in to care homes for the duration. Sacrificing seeing their own children for months to minimise the risk that going between the two would cause.

Its called doing the right thing. Some parents need to suck it up and deal with it. Its temporary. Stop bleating about rights its ridiculous.

I don't think there is one right answer.

Additional complications aside, it's reasonable to think it's safer for a child to be in one home and also reasonable to think that the childs emotional well-being means contact is in their best interest. The vast majority of parents are thinking about their children, without it being about control on one side or point scoring on the other.

And those parents who think they are more selfless or love their children more because the children are staying with one parent only.... You simply have a different perspective on risk versus a child's wellbeing.

@Youmeandborisbee I wrote what you quoted and yes I would tell a mother to stop being so dramatic too.

Plenty of staff on the front line in hospitals, shops and care homes are not seeing their children in a bid to keep them safe.

We are in a pandemic that today has killed over 10,000 people. It's time to be a grown up to protect your family.

OP in your position I wouldn't hesitate to take the mother to court. Do you have a legally defined Child Arrangement Order?

As I mentioned earlier just ignore the anti-male comments, part and parcel of mumsnet I'm afraid.

This is between Dp his ExW and their children not you.
Your opinions are irrelevant to this so back off and let the children's parents work this out.
I doubt the mother is as you put it control freakerish she probably just parents her children without without taking your input into account.

@Willyoujustbequiet if she's that worried, why cant she hand them over and live without them? Why should she be the one creating the problem and shoving the solution down someone else's throat??

If both homes are as described, and someone is concerned so much, they should give up their rights, not behave so selfishly and unilaterally like that.
i feel sorry for children with selfish parents.

Oh dear OP I feel for you and your DH and think you've had a hard time here.

DH is in the same situation apart from the very important point that he and his Ex discussed this and because DSD has asthma jointly agreed it was better not to take the risk of merging households.

From a risk (and facilities) POV both households are similar and age was with her DM when lockdown happened.

As per pp's there has been a lot of calls/FaceTime/houseparty going on and whilst we really miss her it's for the best in our case.

I think your situation is different in that it's not mutually agreed and rightly or wrongly you and your DH feel like she's taking advantage of the situation.

Tbh I wouldn't go to court. I think all you can do is keep pressing the issue within SI guidelines and afterwards try and agree that you get the time paid back over the summer holidays.

In the meantime keep using online tools to keep in touch. Houseparty is great for playing games etc and having fun rather than just a chat.

I can't judge your DH's Ex as it's impossible for me without knowing her to understand her motives are but neither do I think your DH is wrong either.

It's tough

I think its far more selfish to sacrifice your children's health and possibly even life in the name of contact. Mixing households increases risk.

It makes no sense for her to give up the children as they have been there. Far more sensible to keep them in the one place. Especially if there is coughing. Id say the same the other way round if they had been at the NRPs for any length of time.

Personally if I was a key worker or at increased risk I would most definitely give up seeing mine. I wouldnt hesitate.

Fortunately everyone I know in this situation in real life is prioritising safety and contact has stopped

We've all been told essential journeys only.

Children are not chocolate bars!

They are people, with psychological needs.

All separated parents should come to a shared decision, that takes into account health risks, their probabilities of contracting the virus, the impact that dropping contact temporarily will have on the children's relationships with both parents, the ease with which the journey can be taken, the impact on them psychologically and so on.

When all these things are totted up, the journey may be deemed as essential.

I don't think there's a right answer.

To answer your original question OP, my hunch is that they will start to ease lockdown after the early May bank holiday weekend, so four weeks today.

@Willyoujustbequiet bullocks, had he kept the children and told her, sorry too bad they've locked us down now, and although they can move homes, nope they arent returning... Im "too concerned"... Every single poster here including u will be cursing him...

Both parents need to come to an agreement, even if one thinks they know best. Children's needs cover much more than a virus that statistical data says hardly affects healthy children under 10.

Psychological needs have been put second to medical needs for everyone else.

all this 'keep the children safe' and 'don't take the risk' is overreacting. Yes there is a risk but we need to keep it in proporation. In scotland in the last 14 weeks (since the first appearance of COVID19) 17500 people have died of whom around 450 either died with tested COVID or had possible COVID or Probable COVID on the death certificate.

I can see both sides. I think you'd be better off making an effort to really get to know this woman and understand where she's coming from, rather than just taking a second hand view from your partner. Some men can be very selective with the truth when it comes to not telling their new partners the whole story. Remember a lot of what might seem controlling behaviour to those who don't have kids is actually able to be explained rationally once you have them. It was certainly an eye opener for me.

Maybe she knows things about this man that make her worry about his honesty re isolating. I certainly worry my ex isn't observing lockdown properly - but i find myself weighing up the cost to my mental health and the children's mental health through not seeing him against the risks of Covid-19.

OP if you're still here, I completely sympathise with you and your DP.

The anti-father sentiments on here are quite vile. If indeed a father was preventing his children returning to their mother, he would be vilified.

My DH is in a similar position with his ex. His children live quite far away, so he can't just visit them for the day. His usual solution of renting a flat whilst visiting them is obviously not currently possible. He was due to have them for two weeks at Easter, but had to change the dates as he's a key worker and his shifts have changed at short notice.

His ex has been nothing but difficult, she pretended she didn't know that he had to work, so the kids were confused about why their Dad couldn't have them on the original planned dates (she knew, we have emails to prove it).

She then tried to cite the law at him as a reason for him not to have them (when the law explicitly states that he can). There followed a stream of emails where she came up with a different excuse as to why it was terribly inconvenient for her to meet him halfway for handover. He offered to change dates, times, meeting points, everything to accommodate her.

Not once did she express any concern over the health risks. It was all about her own inconvenience. DH has all of this documented, in case he needs it for any contact order arrangements in the future. I believe she has seized on the current crisis to try and exercise some control over DH - the needs of the children have come secondary to her own desire to get one over on him.

My advice to OP is document everything. Be reasonable. Be prepared to be flexible, of course, and maintain contact as well as you can via phone etc in the meantime. But don't let her bully you.

Some people are unpleasant and are using this crisis as an excuse to be even more so.

Wow- I see the bitter projectors are out in force today.

Here is some advice for you:

• Consider the situation as different to yours
• Unless you know the person, don’t judge
• Never assume
• Try not to use aggressive language

Try not to be one of those.

And OP, if you come back. Give your DP a big hug and let him know that this will end someday. It’s hard putting a brave face in for your kids.

And maybe see if you can’t get his ex to open up more about her worries, we’re all on a hair trigger at the moment.