Account by US paramedics

[Orangeblossom78]

I found this a bit disturbing to read, just to warn you if at all sensitive. (link)

Coronavirus in New York: A paramedic's diary
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52196815

I will give the link, it is on BBC today. Feel so sad reading this. How are these people not getting treated before getting to this stage? Is it the healthcare, or is the virus just this severe to be taking people before they are even being seen is it like this here? I hope not, but am unsure.

Sorry X posted

They estimate 180 - 195 deaths per day aren't being counted towards New York's numbers. Utterly awful

This is from www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
Scroll down to the notes at the bottom to see it...

April 6 (GMT)

31240 new cases and 1259 new deaths in the United States

An estimated additional 180 - 195 deaths per day occurring at home in New York City due to COVID-19 are not being counted in the official figures. "Early on in this crisis we were able to swab people who died at home, and thus got a coronavirus reading. But those days are long gone. We simply don't have the testing capacity for the large numbers dying at home. Now only those few who had a test confirmation before dying are marked as victims of coronavirus on their death certificate. This almost certainly means we are undercounting the total number of victims of this pandemic," said Mark Levine, Chair of New York City Council health committee [source]

@EmMac the situation isn’t as bad here, if you look at the number of deaths in NY state (population 19m), they aren’t far off UK the UK’s total numbers. And that’s those deaths recorded, this piece suggests a lot will go undocumented as CV

How horrendous.I wonder if there is only s little information out there about how quickly a person can deteriorate and the signs to look out for.

Do they even have an equivalent of 111 in the us? I presume not as it’s all privatised and therefore possibly more fragmented.

Are there advertisements on the tv end In other media giving warning information and signs to look for?

I cannot imagine a scenario, where every 999 call in this country is for covid cardiac arrest. I know people are being told they’re not well enough and subsequently going down hill rapidly or dying. Of course this is terrible. However this is more management of tight resources and getting it wrong. The paramedic’s account is something else. Just wow!

DP is a paramedic who went to 4 suspect corona a few days before he fell ill. None were tested. It's sad but unfortunately is the role they have taken now. Luckily DP is reasonably young and healthy and we feel optimistic. We have offered our house to his colleagues with young families at home, elderly parents or who simply are sleeping in their cars to protect others as we have two spare rooms. It's so horrifying..

Unfortunately it is happening here however as other pp have said they are not recorded as Covid deaths as they are not tested. The true figure is well above the 9,000+ recorded.

I do feel we might be being failed a bit by NHS guidance if 111 is overwhelmed.

I thought people with COVID often died of sepsis

www.sepsis.org/news/the-connection-between-covid-19-sepsis-and-sepsis-survivors/

but that causes organ failure (heart failure) I suppose.

twitter.com/juliakite/status/1248587619056979969?s=21

‘We Take the Dead From Morning Till Night’ nyti.ms/3dzOuqf

Similar from Italy

I have no idea when the right time to call 999 is!!! If it’s when a loved one is gasping for breath it’s too late. But I’ve heard of people being taken into hospital and sent home and dying and also of paramedics coming and deeming the patient not ill enough and the patient then dying.

Unfortunately it is happening here however as other pp have said they are not recorded as Covid deaths as they are not tested

Not strictly true. When death is certified, Covid can be listed as probable cause without a test being done. This will be picked up on the weekly ONS statistics, as they look at coding on death certificates, both in parts one and two.

I hadnt realised so many were having heart attacks

A cardiac arrest is not a heart attack.

And sepsis doesn't cause heart failure either, it causes multi-organ failure, as does respiratory arrest.

I just don't understand the bit about the deaths not being recorded as Covid19. Surely all death certificates need to have a cause of death? Wouldn't the paramedics record it as Covid19 if that's what they suspected, even if it hadn't been verified with a test?

Oh OK - I've just seen @Baaaahhhhh'a post above. So they would make it into the statistics eventually?

How to know when to call for hep much be difficult especially if 111 are encouraging peopl

I've read accounts of people phoning 111 multiple times and never being deemed sick enough to go to hospital and then dying - one was a nurse who died at home. Another was a local man who was eventually taken in, having been refused previously and has now died. His daughter called several times, was seen by paramedics once, taken to hospital with serious hypoxia given O2 and then sent home. Back in next day seriously unwell.

Big difference to Boris being taken in as a precaution.

Well, it's not so far off as the kind of things that are happening here too.
A friend is in the fire brigade, and their station has to collect the bodies of people who have died from Corona. They're currently collecting 6-8 each shift (3 x shifts a day).
That's one station in London. Those figures are not included in the daily tolls.

Surely all death certificates need to have a cause of death?

They often have more than one though.

Wouldn't the paramedics record it as Covid19 if that's what they suspected

Paramedics cannot give a cause of death, it would be a Dr's decision. If they hadn't seen a doctor in the previous few days, there would usually be a post mortem.

So what sort of post mortem do all these people have? Are they swabbed/tested for Covid after their death? I can’t imagine their coroner/medical examiner has time for all that? Maybe I’m wrong..

But if they’re never tested they will never be added to the official figures?

I can’t imagine their coroner/medical examiner has time for all that

If the cause of death was unknown, the wouldn't have much choice. They can't just stop all PM's due to COVID.

That's a good point @Orangeblossom78. I'm on a main route to our county hospital and haven't heard a siren in days. You don't think ambulance drivers are just having to use them less because the roads are so empty?

So @starlightgazers are you saying that these deaths will eventually be included in the Covid stats, but there will be a delay?

are you saying that these deaths will eventually be included in the Covid stats, but there will be a delay?

My understanding is that is most likely yes, however it may well vary between areas and individual circumstances.

Thank you for clarifying @starlightgazers