Why are people covidiots? What’s the psychology?

[Davespecifico]

I’m struggling to understand how families can watch the news, scroll Facebookand so on and not fail to see, over and over again, ‘stay home, save lives, protect the NHS.’

Really, what are they actually thinking? What goes on in their minds?

I am really worried even about my daily short walk or having to go to the supermarket. But I’m risk averse.

I wonder if there should be a new strategy to appeal to people who are more gung-ho and on the opposite end of the risk taking spectrum from me?

I’m wfh, washing my hands regularly, not seeing friends and family, only going out to walk the dogs and to the shop. I’m not wearing a mask, disinfecting shopping, changing my clothes and showering when I come back into the house - all of which seem to me to be utterly OTT and not evidence-based, given what we know about this virus and similar corona viruses. So my perception of risk is greater than some people’s and much less than others. I certainly wouldn’t be calling either group covidiots

This is kind of where I am. I am following advice, but I think people are interpreting them wrongly and therefore deciding that other people are breaking the rules when they are in actual fact not.

All one can do is worry about themselves and leave others to themselves.

There’s a lot of murmerings about London fucking things up for the north, as usual. I have a certain amount of sympathy for that last comment tbh

What an ignorant and stupid comment.

By "fucking up" do you mean "funding public services for the majority of the uk"?

London’s thriving economy generates a
£26.5bn surplus that is recycled by the government to provide financial help to Britain’s less well-off regions, according to an official breakdown of the public finances.^

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2017/may/23/uk-budget-deficit-grows-to-more-than-10bn-as-people-spend-less

I am puzzled by the London fucking it up for the North narrative - I haven't seen it much lately and I am in Yorkshire. The people that flocked to Scarborough a few weeks back won't have been from the south, they'll have mainly been from Northern cities, and AFAIK that tends to be true of people with second homes here as well.

I think for a lot of people it’s that’s fact that, individually, the risk of catching coronavirus is low, and realistically, if I were to visit my friend who lives down the road and sunbathe in the park, or even just go to her house and hang out, nothing would happen cos we’ve both been following the rules and neither of us is ill. Of course, it’s a big collective effort and if we all stopped following the rules it would stop working - I understand that. So I’m not going to go round to hers. But I think a lot of people will be going ‘oh come on!’ because actually, it’s hard to balance the individual risk, which is low, with the collective risk, which is high. If that makes sense, ie. For the OP there’s no reason why the daily walk should be a worry cos realistically it’s unlikely you’ll catch coronavirus from it with social distancing and had washing. That’s my thinking on it!

I’ve also seen an attitude of “well if I get it, I get it - what will be, will be.” As If they’re being sort of “brave” and “stiff upper lip” about it. Just not taking into account the message about them spreading it to others and the NHS not being able to cope with the numbers.

they only think of themselves and that they either are not scared of catching it and/or don't want to be told what to do - plus the entitled think they are somehow special and justify their actions to themselves

People doing as they are told see the bigger picture and don't want to risk being an asymptomatic spreader

I live in Cornwall & think because we don’t have that many cases/deaths here yet, some people believe they can carry on more or less as usual. I watched a video posted on Facebook by a nurse who works at the main hospital in the county & she had just encountered a guy who said “ Everyone’s totally overreacting, it’s just a bug”. She was really upset by his don’t care attitude.
The main worry for us is people for some insane reason thinking it’s still ok for them to travel down here on holiday!

The person I know (just on fb now reallly, not seen her in RL for 20 years) who is vocally antithe measures in place is also a massive anti vaxxer. I’ve challenged those views in the past but I’ve had to mute her because the temptation to yell “THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A VIRUS WE HAVE NO IMMUNITY TO SWEEPS THE GLOBE YOU ABSOLUTE TWAT” is overwhelming.

AravisTarkheena

how about the example I posted, then add to it, a couple were teachers on a rotated to look after key workers children, and another ones DH was still at work out of the home, working with others.

I agree that London comment is absolutely bull. By all means be angry at a government for not controlling it better at the start but how on earth is city able to shut down without being told to?!
And people Escaping to second homes definitely isn’t just a London thing either.

Cognitive dissonance is more when someone holds two competing viewpoints so in this case it might be 'there is a deadly virus circulating' 'my mother will be upset if I don't see her on Mother's Day/ over Easter'. These two competing viewpoints cause us internal stress which is uncomfortable.

To deal with it people might downplay one at the expense of the other. They might say 'oh but my mother would understand that I shouldn't come, we can spend more time later in the year together and it is more important that we all reduce social contact and stay safe from the virus.' The other approach is to say 'my parents would be really upset if I don't visit (based on posts about narcissistic parents/IL this may be true), it is only a bit of flu, we are all fairly healthy, we haven't been out too much recently, it only affects old people and those who would have died soon anyway and I feel well so would be unlikely to have it or pass it on.' Adopting one or the other viewpoints will reduce the cognitive dissonance and anxiety over holding competing viewpoints.

People do it all the time with smoking and cancer- it's all just numbers, I feel fine, I would rather die happy, uncle Joe lived to 94 and he smoked every day. It doesn't reduce the chances of cancer but it reduces the stress a smoker might experience over continuing to smoke.

I have been self isolating for 5 weeks now, as have my husband and children. We are in Northern Ireland, and with St Patrick’s Day and strategic decisions by our school (and all other local schools) we closed a week before the rest of the UK. Many local businesses also closed of their own volition too in the week.

So, just to be clear, I am completely following all the rules.

But... I must say, having no grandparents (and having never had grandparents alive during my lifetime), my parents are fairly fit and healthy as are we as a family, I do find it hard to wrap my head around the idea that we are losing out of absolutely loads of essential NHS services for this virus.

I am pregnant so possibly very selfish in this respect, but almost all antenatal care has ground to a halt, cancer screening services have stopped, our local hospital’s A&E department has closed and moved to another about an hour away, one of our friend’s chemotherapy treatments have stopped, other friend’s operations have been cancelled (including potentially life saving cancer ops). The list goes on and on.

In Northern Ireland thankfully, we have only had around 73 deaths so far, I hope that this figure remains low.

I promise that I personally am doing all that I can to stay safe, but in light of the above I can see how others may start to wonder what it’s all for.

Good ol' fashioned selfishness in most cases. We're used to our wants being addressed as needs most of the time, and I think people are struggling to see a difference between them.
As for the North/South thing, I think there's a certain amount of separation mentally, I see it in my village. We live 20 miles away from the nearest large hospital that has a major trauma unit etc, and a lot I speak to have stopped watching the news, scroll past updates etc and with being at home and not mixing they have distanced themselves as well from what's actually happening. I feel it myself to a certain degree, my sister is working on the front line with patients, she's busy obviously so we keep in touch via message, I read her messages but it's not like when we have spoken face to face in the past about the issues that are affecting us at that time, as we can't do that. I'm in my own little bubble, and I think many people are too.
With some though it's just being seen as an opportunity to defy authority and be 'admired' for not doing what they're told - like the naughty kid in class that gets all the attention. There's a belief that they're edgy and brave and that the concequences don't scare them. Definitely seen that attitude too.

I can’t really be ignorant just by saying what I’ve seen/heard. The bit I can kind of see their point on is that this virus was out of control in London very early on, and that the main impact we’ve had here is on businesses, freedoms, and non-covid-19 health, not health issues from covid-19 itself. I’ve no doubt it’s coming though.

London running a surplus just proves the point though - so much business, and therefore the ability to make money - is centred on London. I’m pretty sure other areas would rather just have the business itself rather than the social care needed to make up for the lack of business. This is all beside the covid-19 point though.

I’ve got a family member who lives in Bournemouth and despite beach car parks being closed people are still going to the beach. It’s been reported by a local newspaper. The other day people were swimming in the sea. There’s a real worry that this will be a problem over the Easter weekend. At the moment Dorset has a low amount of confirmed case compared to elsewhere, maybe it’s making people feel complacent and that the risk near them isn’t very great?

I have definitely witnessed Normalcy Bias in action through reactions from family and friends. People telling me I was stupid for stocking up my pantry because online deliveries will still come. People insisting it was only flu despite the overwhelming evidence from China and Italy that it wasn't. People laughing at me when I used hand sanitizer or cleaned surfaces. There was a LOT of denial going on.

What has been interesting is seeing how everyone came to the realisation in their own time. Now, everyone I know is on the same page in terms of understanding the risk and following the rules.

As for the people breaking the rules - I think there's definitely an element of thinking it doesn't apply to them. Perhaps they're young and healthy, and don't have vulnerable people to worry about. Perhaps they don't really believe it can spread as easily as it does so meeting with friends, travelling on holiday etc can't do any harm as long as no one coughs in their face.

I am risk averse, and I'm scrupulously careful with hand washing. I do wash my groceries, phone, bank card etc. They are surfaces on which the virus can survive. But it's impossible to know how much virus is on them, and we really don't know what the real risk is of anyone actually catching the virus from surfaces like this. Who knows eh. My attitude is - if there's no reason not to do it (e.g. wash your groceries) then why not do it.

I think some of it is that some people don't really engage with information, or even actively resist it. They don't hear about something and do any independent research or bother to find out facts. It's an attitude thing but then for many of them what little they do hear won't be understood. I wouldn't be surprised to find there are still many people who don't know that you can be asymptomatic, and if you are can still infect others, or that young and fit people are hospitalised and/or die. They won't understand how it is transmitted or what the wider picture is in terms of timing, nhs capacity. I think it is about poor receptivity to information, poor education, lack of intelligence.

Then there is self absorption and indulgence, people mired in the trivialities of their own social groups.

Resistance to facing facts that are going to disrupt their lives. Literally don't want to hear it.

Failing to understand that no one wants to do all this, everyone would like to be the exception who breaks the rules, but if everyone acted on that then the whole project would collapse. Allied to that is thinking you can do something because you can see it is no risk, when actually even if you are right it undermines the whole project, but also...you're probably not right.

There are going to be lots of people who combine many of the factors mentioned in this thread, recipe for non compliance.

I do think part of it is a failure on the part of govt to spell it out to these people with really concrete examples.

Of course the real idiots are the people who believe everything they are told by the media and authorities. Where has critical thinking gone?

Some people are starting to ignore their gagging orders and speak out. Because, what happens to our world if you don't? I hope people more and more people start to feel braver.

Failing to understand that no one wants to do all this, everyone would like to be the exception who breaks the rules, but if everyone acted on that then the whole project would collapse. Allied to that is thinking you can do something because you can see it is no risk, when actually even if you are right it undermines the whole project, but also...you're probably not right.

Yes I agree. There does have to be a strong amount of group think to make this work. I struggle with it, because while I might know that driving 5 mins to a deserted beach to go for a walk poses no risk to myself or anyone else - I know that if everyone did it, then it would increase the risk.

I’ve got a family member who lives in Bournemouth and despite beach car parks being closed people are still going to the beach. It’s been reported by a local newspaper. The other day people were swimming in the sea

This is what I struggle with. The act of going to the beach isn't risky if there's no one else there. Likewise swimming in the sea - there's nothing wrong with that. BUT if everyone does it, car parks get busy, people congregate and then there's a problem.

So a lot of the rules are difficult because we know that individually there is little to no risk, but the rules need to be enforced to prevent the masses from doing it.

I know two families who are ignoring the rules.
One is very naice and as above pp said believe that being cooped up will do their kids more harm than the virus. They justify not harming others by 2m rule.
The other are at the other end of social spectrum and are anti authority idiots. With massive chip on shoulders and I can do what I like / I'd rather die than be told what to do attitude. Also, I assume, justifying no harm to others with 2m rule.
I'm equally annoyed with both.

I think as well, for some people, death is not the worse thing that could happen. If I die, it will be a bit shit for my family, but I'm going to die one day of something.

Within those people there are two types. People like me, who are following the rules because I realise that for most people death is the worse thing, I could pass the virus on to others, if I was ill I would take up valuable nhs resources etc. (No finacial hardship for us) So I am following the rules purely for the sake of other people. I am doing it for love of others.

However for some people, doing this for others alone, is coming at such a personal cost, that their love doesn't stretch that far. Complete financial ruin, losing their home, and minor things like food shortages, being unable to see loved ones. Dying would be preferable.

Especially if you live somewhere like I do. I know no-one from my area who has it. So the chance of me getting it from visiting a friend is extremely low.

There was something in the news about people breaking self isolation rules being more likely to believe conspiracy theories or more likely to go against the authorities.

But I can't find it online.

People who refuse to self isolate tend to be non believers in official advice and ferment their own theories as to why the advice is being given.

'They want to control us/reduce the population/do something with no witnesses.'

I've heard:

a) I don't care.
b) I won't get it so...
c) We've all got to get it eventually so...
d) More people will die because of the damage to the economy and following austerity than Covid-19 so I disagree with how we're dealing with it.
e) I have to be in contact with x amount of people per day because I still have to go to work, not like you layabouts so...
f) Why should everyone have to stay in for the vulnerable? They should stay in and the rest of us should get on with it.

I’ve no doubt that some people are being reckless, but I also think people are bad at assessing risk generally - which is pretty well established in psychology for various reasons- and that this experience is really demonstrating that. People are under or overestimating the risk to themselves and to the population generally. Married with the fact that there is so much we don’t know about coronavirus, ie it spreads, why the mortality is different in different countries AND the conflicting advice/approaches from various governments, the at times confusing response from our government and the fact that they left mass public. Communication quite late and relied on disseminating info through press briefings... i think it all adds up to create this climate where people aren’t following the rules.

I’m short, some people being stupid, but it’s also genuinely difficult for people to get their heads round.

mindproject I get that you are just having a bit of fun, but it's not funny if people take you seriously.

Generally I've heard a lot of comments that suggested people don't connect what they are doing with the virus on the news. People saying things like "why should I be punished and made to stay in just because someone on the news is sick"

On youtube and probably other social media you will find people talking like Mindproject and worse. Visitors find themselves surrounded by others who are sure the video is true and yes the government really is making this up so they can control you.

it's brought the Freeman on the land crazies out too like the video of that woman defying the police.