All the doctors dying are Asian - what’s going on?

[MMXVi]

And why is nobody asking questions about this?

I’m over-invested in the answer because my sister is a doctor very much on the frontline, and we’re of Indian ethnicity. I want her to be protected and if she’s facing some sort of additional genetic, behavioural or dietary risk I want that flagged up to her and other doctors PDQ, not to mention their patients of the same ethnicity.

If I see another glib and possibly slightly racist response about BAME people being poorer and therefore more prone to underlying conditions I’ll flip my lid totally by the way. There’s a world of difference between an Asian hospital consultant on £150k in stockbrokerville and someone Asian on the breadline in an overcrowded council flat, and it isn’t helpful to lump them together in this instance.

So far, I’ve seen a thread about Vitamin D3 deficiency making darker-skinned people more susceptible to respiratory illness. That makes sense to me, and I’ve already ordered some from Amazon for my sister as well as the rest of our family.

My mother (not medically qualified) has a touching belief in the anti-inflammatory and anti-carcinogenic powers of turmeric so I’m making daal as we speak.

My dad (retired very senior doctor and the veteran of more than one pandemic) says probably multi-factorial, but as he’s currently recovering from cancer and therefore very high risk, I’m not going to make him elaborate.

Any other ideas and theories?

Anyone else concerned about why the press have neglected to mention this glaringly obvious information?

itsgettingweird Mosques have been closed for weeks
and transport workers have little in common with highly paid consultants

MMxvi I doubt - in hospital at least - that staff would be allowed to refuse to wear PPE (when available), however senior they are

Interesting about the masks not fitting Asian faces correctly. My Chinese friend in Singapore who has a garment manufacturing business is actually modifying imported masks for this very reason.

Surely doctors would KNOW to take vitamin d? Im wondering just why a hcp wouldnt know about vitamin d deficiency or insufficiency when it is on the Nhs recommendations that everyone should supplement? I.can understand non medics not knowing.

probably a combination of factors?

I really don't think it can be related to any discrimination over access to PPE and is likely to be the other reasons (1) lots of Asian London and Brimingham doctors - our London GP practice has 14 doctors and only about 4 are non Asian.
There is also a massive diabetes issue in my area too which has a lot of people of Indian origin because genetically they have more propensity to that and some eat a lot of sweets (not all of course). The vit D theory may be right too. For the last few years every day (I work frm home) from March to about October I lie in the sun (when it is sunny ) for 30 minutes without any suncream on, ideally in my underwear (closed garden) and have only caught 2 colds in 2 years and only seen my doctor once in 15 years (of course I am very lucky and am not suggesting that is the key to good health and I'm white anyway).

I hope your sister is okay. I do think getting some sun really does help but not much good telling that to doctors who may well be working every bank holiday over the weekend and not seeing day light of course. It may also be worth doing some breathing exercises. I sing at the piano every day - whether that life;'s habit affects my lung capacity I have no idea, Obviously weight is an issue for some of my sons' Asian friends' parents (never mind their white friends) but most doctors are pretty good at staying slim. Obesity seems to be a big problem with covid 19.

I was reading about this online yesterday, but a lot of NHS staff are not white British, London has the highest numbers because it’s such a built up area but it is also home to many different cultures so maybe it’s just coincidence?

As for the blood group I think it was blood group A (I am A neg) but again it may just be a coincidence?

The biggest difference is between male and female, a lot more men are dying from this than women.

Thank you for this thread OP. DH has diabetes, is from South Asian descent and has a higher than desirable BMI. Vitamin D ordered! Muchos nagging on the BMI front too!

In my experience many BAME doctors work to an older age, commonly beyond retirement age. There is also a predisposition to some of the risk factors in particular diabetes and hypertension often despite a healthy weight and diet.

I don’t think they are less risk averse than colleagues but yes it is very concerning.

*How about Italy? Non Muslim, non Asian !
It is a disease with no colour discrimination. *

What? Just because Italians died, doesn't mean that the death rate wouldn't have been higher if they were black/Asian. That's why it's important to collect data and analyse how diseases affect race, as they do in all clinical trials.

To the PP who said a doctor would surely know about D3 supplementation - they might know in theory, but they’re not necessarily supplementing in practice. Just like all the smokers and doughnut eaters know all about healthy living. I know more than one cardiologist who smokes.

The other oddity is Hull, second lowest infection rate in the UK.

Not odd. It's an area where people tend to stay their whole lives precisely because it's deprived. There aren't many opportunities to get out. And there's not much attracting visitors in. And not as many who are actively mixing with people who returned from skiing trips in Italy.

The political trend in the area is very focused on localism and inward thinking. This tends to be a reflection of population behaviour and how wide a community's circle of interaction is.

So no I'm not at all surprised it has one of the lowest rates of infection. In fact the places that were bottom of the list 10 days or so ago were largely places you could have guessed off the top of your head. Hartlepool, North Lincolnshire, Peterborough, Blackpool and Telford all near the bottom. It's definitely to do with deprivation. In some ways this is good news because if it spreads into these communities because health tends to be poorer then it might affect them disproportionately badly too.

One of the doctors named was aged 76 - another probably older than that (he qualified in 1967), a third doctor was aged 68 - age must be a factor for some.

We were talking about this earlier and were also wondering about it.

The 13 year old boy who died in was also Asian.

All I can say is it’s so so sad that some of the
doctors who died came out of retirement to help fight this. That shows true dedication to medicine however I think it was a huge mistake of the government to ask this. It’s so sad.

BAME are communities much more concentrated in cities than provincial towns and rural areas. Spread is primarily in cities atm.

@Kittywampus, I'm sure turmeric makes a difference to health, just based on my dog. She has dodgy elbows and was quite lame in February several years after corrective surgery, but the turmeric-based supplement she has been having for three months has made her much more comfortable. It is a natural non-steroidal anti-inflammatory compound and it seems very effective.

Of course, this is anecdata based on a single history. But it seems to have worked, as we have changed nothing else in her diet or exercise. But there is the change in the season too, which may be contributing.

Hi Op
I’m so pleased to see this being discussed in here for a number of reasons

1 we urgently need to do a risk assessment for all front line workers . I simply do not understand WHY we are allowing people over a certain age .....say 55 .... to work on the front line

2 It’s astounding the proportion of doctors who have died that are BAME . Personally I do not think social or economic factors can explain this

3 this seems to me to be more likely to be genetic or ethnic vulnerability to this particular virus

4 for all who are interested please follow Luke O neill an Irish immunologist on Twitter

5 there is Speculation about two important issues here

One is the BCG vaccine as a possible protective factor
...... differences in mortality noted to be variable dep on the nations vaccine program re BCG

Two more recent speculation re ??? Haemaglobiopathies as a possible risk factor
Things like thalassaemia

I’m heart broken to see my health care colleagues around the country die

Without even the option to be tested when we are ill

Evidence Is being father to protect this group but I think action needed now

There’s another thread on here about the vitamin D link with info mapping deaths versus latitude.

I think the vitamin D link is big. Plus I thought it has been shown through research that the ACE-2 gene is a host receptor for the virus and Asian males (I think) have more of these receptors?

I don’t think any of this discussion is racist. We need to work out why some races are more susceptible to certain diseases.

Gathered !

I was also thinking maybe they are older/don’t retire early.

Yes, if we know that ethnicity is likely to be a risk factor, then that needs to be included in any risk assessment. That isn't racist, it is good practice.

Bigchoc yes they have been closed for weeks but we know it's about 4 weeks from infection to mortality and they were still open then.

I don’t know but you are right to question it, ok going to rtft

I think this has been noticed, researched and discussed in both the US and UK. Seems like there are a lot of factors at play, this article is on BBC News today: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52219070

All the doctors dying are Asian

No they are not

Thank heaven for Delatron. Race needs to be considered as a medical issue. Incidence of disease does vary with ethnicity or so it would seem; it's not about judging and blaming. One of the reasons there are so many doctors of Asian extraction is that the Ugandan Asians who came as refugees in the 70s, when I was a child in Cornwall valued opportunity and education above anything else, and encouraged their children into professions.