All the doctors dying are Asian - what’s going on?

[MMXVi]

And why is nobody asking questions about this?

I’m over-invested in the answer because my sister is a doctor very much on the frontline, and we’re of Indian ethnicity. I want her to be protected and if she’s facing some sort of additional genetic, behavioural or dietary risk I want that flagged up to her and other doctors PDQ, not to mention their patients of the same ethnicity.

If I see another glib and possibly slightly racist response about BAME people being poorer and therefore more prone to underlying conditions I’ll flip my lid totally by the way. There’s a world of difference between an Asian hospital consultant on £150k in stockbrokerville and someone Asian on the breadline in an overcrowded council flat, and it isn’t helpful to lump them together in this instance.

So far, I’ve seen a thread about Vitamin D3 deficiency making darker-skinned people more susceptible to respiratory illness. That makes sense to me, and I’ve already ordered some from Amazon for my sister as well as the rest of our family.

My mother (not medically qualified) has a touching belief in the anti-inflammatory and anti-carcinogenic powers of turmeric so I’m making daal as we speak.

My dad (retired very senior doctor and the veteran of more than one pandemic) says probably multi-factorial, but as he’s currently recovering from cancer and therefore very high risk, I’m not going to make him elaborate.

Any other ideas and theories?

Anyone else concerned about why the press have neglected to mention this glaringly obvious information?

Thank you to everyone for your contributions, especially links, and thank you to @perniciousdot for the clarification.

I hadn’t seen anything in the mainstream press or on TV but the articles linked here are very helpful, particularly the link to Swedish Somalis.

Is the lung capacity due to smaller stature really a factor? The doctors I’ve seen in the papers are all men, so probably taller than women, and women doctors are pretty much 50:50 in the medical profession.

Apologies to the families of other professions by the way; I’m just concentrating on doctors because - in a roundabout way - this thread is about my sister. Making sure she’s as protected as she can be is how I’m dealing with my anxiety. It’s a sad truism that doctors are rarely very healthy themselves!

There is a suspicion emerging around Vit D deficiency and propensity to a more serious illness. And there are other medical issues associated with poorer outcomes which can be an issue for people of Indian origin...for example metabolic problems and diabetes which occur at lower weights/BMI in people of Indian origin. (I recall reading that BMI charts and the associated risks tend to be based on Caucasian proportions.) So I would guess there will be emerging medical explanations when people have time to study the epidemiology in the aftermath.

What is the link with blood groups? What blood group is more at risk?

Are the more Asian Doctors in hospitals than white Doctors ?

Muslim women in particular are at the greatest risk of vitamin D deficiency because of their habit of covering everything except their face - or sometimes everything including their face. It can be a serious problem that is easy to ignore or dismiss until it’s suddenly linked to something like this.

Is the lung capacity due to smaller stature really a factor? is how long you can hold your breath a good measure of lung capacity? If so then mine is much better than my dh's. I'm 5'2 and he is nearly 6 foot.

Hmm, with doctors & healthcare staff I had taken it as a indicator of the high numbers of BAME staff who work in the NHS. When I read about the numbers in the US I assumed it was about institutional racism, because there is lots of evidence about how black women are treated in childbirth, those in pain with sickle cell etc are treated - I assumed they would be denied treatment, taken off treatment early etc. However this isn’t going to apply to professionals being treated in hospital by their colleagues... so I don’t know!

It’s about over representation and also because their initial concerns were not taken seriously. They were made to continue working despite having symptoms of COVID and no appreciate PPE. Like nurse from Watford General Hospital and Dr from Homerton Hospital.

I wondered this too OP. And I also wince every time they reference the poverty link. I have no theories, but interested to hear peoples thoughts, can it really be as simple as numbers/percentages?

An obvious starting question, which no one on these threads seems to wonder, is do we know the total number of medical staff who have died from C-19 and their ethnicity, and whether that is disproportionate to the general medical population. Or are posters making the assertion that "all" or "most" medical staff who have died are BAME based on individual people who have been reported in the media? Those reports are the result of families releasing names and photos and it cannot be treated as a definitive list of all medical staff who have died.

Cant remember who did the documentary but Asian babies tend to be smaller with low birth weights. This means the organs are small. This in turn leads to the diabetes as a very slim looking Asian person can have a lot of body fat. All from low birth weighs. I watched it as my son was 5lbs at birth. Maybe that's a reason but from.my sketchy memory I think that was for eg Indians born in India etc as good nutrition was more patchy in India.

I just thought to begin with that where I was born, we had a large Asian community and the kids was pushed more to succeed so therefore more went onto these high profile jobs. But I think it's a mix of a few factors biologically that we dont understand yet.

Low vitamin D in a rainy country does sound likely

I read certain blood types are more susceptible a series does to the virus.

I've read about vit D and diabetes too.

Grim question but is the total sample size of NHS-worker casualties now big enough to allow statistically significant conclusions about ethnic differences to be drawn?

I don't think your Mum's wrong about turmeric btw - can't remember where but have read that, in high enough quantities, it does have anti-inflammatory qualities.

I wouldn't be surprised about Vitamin D deficiency - vampire-like "beauty gurus" have been banging on at people to wear suncream even in the middle of December while they're sat in an office, because "harmful UV rays!!!". I think the benefit of those rays for half an hour a day is a lot more than the potential harm. Now I don't feel guilty for never putting on suncream (well, tbf I never felt that guilty).

People with darker skin have a hard time absorbing sunlight - it needs to be stronger and for longer, which isn't really possible in this country. Also Muslim women usually have their limbs covered up, which is where the absorption of Vitamin D mainly happens.

@Sweetpea84

Sorry, I can’t copy in the link now.
But if you google „ Relationship between the ABO Blood Group and the COVID-19 Susceptibility „ you should find the article.

I've been objecting on several threads to those wanting to stop people using their "allowed" time outside to just sit in the sun

Especially those of us who are BAME, mixed race or elderly, need all the damn sun we can get
to replenish VitD stores after winter

Are there any statistics regarding race and COVID 19 deaths?

The vitamin D theory is interesting. (I've been feeding us all vitamin D tablets) I've just realised the only person I know who has been intubated because of COVID 19 is black.

This would mean people in the Southern Hemisphere, where they've just had summer will do better than dark skinned folk on the northern hemisphere? I suppose only time will tell.

I did say in my OP that the poverty link is a red herring, didn’t I?

Don’t assume everyone who isn’t white is economically disadvantaged please. In fact, Indians in the UK are probably the exact opposite. There are no undergraduate grants or student loans in India and only primary education is free, so every Indian-qualified doctor has been to private school before medical school. Not deprived and indigent

I've just realised the only person I know who has been intubated because of COVID 19 is black.

Shit, same for me as well!

It's widely reported.

Also there have been many differing viewpoints giving suggestions as to why in various media outlets over the past few weeks as well as some threads here.

Reasons being are the vitamin D thing. Apparently there are studies showing why people in countries away from the equator (like the UK!) have very pale and white skinned people - it's because evolution has done this to allow more sunlight in and increase Bit D levels as we don't have year round sun.

Also that many Muslim people attend mosque regularly and sit very close to each other.

Many BAMe families can have multi generational living and there was a study with correlation between hotspots and high levels of multi generational living.

Also there is the fact of employment. Many of the transport workers in London have been BAME. They have continued to work and work a lot of long hours being exposed to high amount of virus. I read something someone had written (cannot remember the source) where they couldn't apply for UC therefore they couldn't cut hours. Something to do with the type of visa iirc.

I don't think it's any 1 particular reason but a combination of factors. But it is something we need to find out the underlying cause for so we can prevent it moving forward.

The Asian doctors that died were very senior staff or consultants and I’m struggling to believe they’d be deprived of proper PPE. Whether in the arrogance of their seniority they chose not to wear it (in the olden days, discarding the white coat was a sign that you’d “made it”) is another issue.

The majority of our doctors in the hospital here are Asian- it might also be down to the representative numbers. And the fact that (in general) Asian medics seem to work to a much greater age. The ones I worked with saw it as a calling and you don’t give up when you hit 60. I’m sure I’m telling you things you already know. I’ve also read the studies about vitamin D and predisposition to cardiac/diabetes issues.

Many thanks to your sister for being there for people now. You are clearly very caring trying to keep her safe.

How about Italy? Non Muslim, non Asian !
It is a disease with no colour discrimination. Only one thing is common and I.e respirating failure.

The thing about the norm charts all based on being Caucasian is interesting. I’m definitely plump-to-fat - you just need to look at me - but my BMI is bang on 22.

I noticed this as well. I was told it's hitting ethnic minorities worse for some reason but I don't know if this is true, I hope not.