School closure limited impact!

[FreakStar]

www.standard.co.uk/news/health/school-closures-coronavirus-limited-impact-a4408741.html

How can this be true?

It does seem children in general have limited symptoms of coronavirus, but surely they are still major spreaders of the disease.

What would be the point of keeping restaurants, playgrounds, pubs closed and asking people to work from home if their children are going to school?

If children are going to school in the day then I can't see the point of them not socialising outside of school.

How on earth can social distancing be maintained in a school? - I'm working in school with children of Key workers, and with only 9 children in school it was difficult enough to get them to stay away from each other!

Children being at home is forcing lots to work from home- as soon as schools go back you can guarantee that many people will go back to work too.

I don't believe that opening schools before ending other social distancing measures is a good idea! I think schools should be one of the last places to return to normal!

Completely agree with you, this study appears majorly flawed in that it completely ignores the reality of UK school life. I wonder how many students could fit in most classrooms whilst keeping 2m distance all around them? Maybe 8 if you're lucky? So where do the rest of the children go?!

Restrictions would be lifted gradually

However, primary schools at least, need to open, before a lot of people can return to work
and the economy can build up again

Cinemas, restaurants, playgrounds, pubs etc should remain closed for a while
and no large gatherings of adults allowed except within public transport,

but exercise restrictions outside could be lifted after schools open
Then see how it goes

Of course schools to need to open if people are to return to work, I agree. However, I don't see any point restricting restaurants if schools are open. People are far more likely to spread it in a school than in a restaurant!

I read this earlier. Surely after Easter is too early. After May half term at the earliest I can understand re getting the economy back on track.

Not sure if schools would spread it more...

Surely most children go: home>school>home.

Office workers go:
home>coffee shop>office>out for something for lunch>meeting (maybe out)> office>home. And maybe we go and buy dinner on the way home etc.

Plus we are more likely to be on public transport than kids are. Kids might all get the same bus for example.

I think after Easter is probably unrealistic but equally September seems too late as we would be heading straight into winter flu season. After May half term seems like a possibility depending on the data.

Read the lancet paper this is based on.

Then read this
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1247445729439895555.html

What the study says that if schools are closed and NO other form of social distancing carried out, 2-4% of lives are saved.

As that isn’t what we have done here, it’s pretty bizarre for the BBC and others to imply that’s what the study is saying.

Professor Neil Ferguson who is advising the government is quite clear that closing schools has been effective at reducing transmission between households.

I'm not sure people appreciate what it was like in schools before they closed down. I absolutley want to get back to work proper (admin in a school) but with teachers on the shielded list and other staff following the 7 days at home if they have a temp and 14 days at home if they live in a house with someone with a temp, staffing was really hard. Add every time a child developed a temp or a cough during the day we had to isolate them and clean the classroom. I dont know how practical reopening schools during shielding and the isolating rules is. I guess it will just be like it was before with some schools open and some schools open based on their osn staff and risk assessments.

Adult staff are more at risk than children. Surely they deserve reassurances before being shut in cramped germ ridden classrooms with 30 transporting children.

In addition to this lots of staff in schools work in separate communities from their homes and this could mean transmission of the virus across several areas, which is one of things the govt are trying to prevent through no driving to exercise etc.

Anyone who works in a school knows they are a breeding ground for bugs and viruses. Staff new to the profession are always dogged with a succession of infections when they first start before they build up their immunity.

Children in school naturally come into closer contact with each other than adults in an office- they hug and touch each other far more, always head to head contact, classrooms are generally cramped, they are less able to follow hygiene rules, they put their hands in their mouths, ears, eyes far more, they share equipment, they don't have a fixed place to work in, they cough and sneeze without covering their faces etc. Why do you think only schools get outbreaks of headline etc- this doesn't happen in offices- yuck!

By far the worst transmission happens by infected people coughing. Children get far fewer symptoms so wont cough and transmit nearly as much as adults.

It’s a very flawed study. If they send the kids back it’s 100% the end of social distancing.

You are absolutely ridiculous to suggest that children won’t cough so won’t spread it! They cough without covering their mouths, they chew pencils, they pick their noses. They spread germs EVERYWHERE.

I suspect that at one point, school age children may have been considered as good bets/reasonably low risk for contributing to the herd immunity percentage approach, as it was assumed that their systems reacted less dangerously to it in general.
Not sure that this would still be applicable (and hope that it wouldn't, if I am right). And yes, they would still contribute to quick spread even if they were to go through it safely as individuals. That's why they give them the yearly flu vaccination, to shield larger sections of the population.

By far the worst transmission happens by infected people coughing. Children get far fewer symptoms so wont cough and transmit nearly as much as adults.

Have you ever been in a classroom?!

School needs to go back to protect the education and well being of our children
Current measures are necessary but we have to ask the question at some point, about the cost of them long term. In my mind keeping schools closed until September is unacceptable.

The government accept that children are infected at the same rates as adults. Whether it’s mild or not mild, they’ll be spreading it. Children do not have the social niceties of many adults and will be breathing on, sneezing, coughing and licking everything in sight. In primary, by accident-I’ve heard in secondary-on purpose!!

If schools go back social distancing will be over and we will be back to the herd immunity strategy.

The problem with schools being shut is nothing to do with education in reality it’s a child care issue because so many families can’t afford one parent to be home for childcare.

I have homeschooled my kids for many years now but if they were at school there is no way in hell any of my kids would be setting foot in school after Easter.

People who can should keep their kids home - I can’t imagine why you wouldn’t.

@Maxtry - I don't know what school you've been in. Ours sounds like we have a group of 60 a day smokers most days in the winter!

And, as @Boxachocs said, kids chew pens. Then they lend them to their friends in lessons...who chew the pen. You don't have to cough to spread this in schools - you just have to put a box of pens in the middle of the table.

Plus you can't social distance kids. We have 2000 in our school and an hour to feed them all in. Can you imagine the 2 metre rule in operation for that?

I've said on another thread that the only way to do social distancing in to halve the number of kids in school so you can sit them apart, manage the movement through the school in a more organised manner etc.,

But for that to happen parents will have to have the ability to work half a week or have child care in place so that year 3 and 5 (or 8 and 10) are in for the first half of the week and the rest are in for the next half. But if that happens there will be parents who still can't get back to work - if you have a couple of kids who are in the same school but different years you'll have to find child care. And that won't be easy as every parent in the same position will be trying to find it too.

Added to which transport may be more difficult for the older kids - with the deaths of bus drivers on routes that carry adults, I can't imagine the unions agreeing to bus drivers taking a bus out fully loaded with kids as they do at the moment.

Our kids (secondary) don't use designated school buses, they take public transport - crammed in, standing in the aisles, cheek to jowl with the elderly and anyone else on the bus. Many of those who don't get a lift from parents, meaning far more cars on the road. In primary you'll have school gate issues - how do that number of parents social distance while waiting for pupils to come out? Plus, will there be breakfast / after school clubs? (If parents are back to work there will have to be.) How do you encourage social distancing in these, more informal, settings? How do you social distance in PE?

As a PP said, it's not the schools, as such, it's everything that surrounds it.

Actually looking at what that article says. Such lazy journalism from the BBC

Also worth bearing in mind that the 2-4% figure is modelled, not actually based on any real world evidence at all. How many pandemics have we had where schools were closed but no other distancing measures took place? That's not a school closure, that's a summer holiday. Not the same thing at all.

And considering this paper was talking about schools being opened but students remaining in a single classroom, maintaining 2m distancing, and cancelling breaktimes... mhm, mhm... cool story bruh....

And considering this paper was talking about schools being opened but students remaining in a single classroom, maintaining 2m distancing, and cancelling breaktimes... mhm, mhm... cool story bruh...

Exactly-it’s drivel.

Ok...I work in a school and of course kids cough, sneeze etc all the time. But I just meant children who are infected do not have as severe symptoms and so it wouldnt be transmitted as easily as putting 30 infected adults together.