There must be a public inquiry

[Haplap]

And criminal charges. This government will have been responsible for so many avoidable deaths:

UK is projected to have over 3 times as many deaths as Italy by August (66 000 V 20 000):

covid19.healthdata.org/united-kingdom

They took all the wrong decisions despite the scientific advice:

www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-path-speci-idUSKBN21P1VF

Stop clapping, start scrutinising!

I agree @SquishySquirmy we went from saying huge gatherings were fine (Cheltenham/ football matches/ concerts). To full lockdown within a week. The deaths we are seeing now are from around that time.

I don’t think schools should have shut any earlier or lockdown should have happened any earlier.

I do think we should have tested more, we should have quarantined those coming in from hotspots much earlier rather than the wishy washy ‘isolate if you have symptoms’ we know people are infectious before symptoms and that a huge number are asymptomatic so quarantine for 2 weeks should have been mandatory.

This would have been more effective at slowing the spread and may have actually meant we could have not had a long lockdown? The countries who are on top of this will come out of lockdown sooner with less of an impact on their economies.

I like that Chris Whitty said we had a lot to learn from the Germans. However, we were advised by the WHO to test, test, test. We chose to ignore this advice.

I just cannot get my head around how test test test will lower the death rate. It may well slow it down by reducing transmission. But that is just storing up problems for the winter. I really would love to understand how people see a way out of this by antigen testing. I am not saying it is not important so people can get back to work again but I cannot understand how it would reduce the death rate other, as I have said, by slowing it down.

I mean we should have tested more initially.

Agree now it’s a bit late (but still would help). I don’t think it will affect the current curve of the death rate.

I guess if cases go down. Then we test more and isolate we may control a second wave better?

Would it be fair to consider that, for the foreseeable future, the country cannot afford the financial implications of a public enquiry and potential damages payouts?
We cannot tell for certain what would have been the best course of action until in a few years from now.
Ridiculous idea. This is not the time for placing the blame at anyone’s door.
We are where we are,. So are other countries.

Bool the death rate will remain unchanged until a vaccine is found and used.
Testing would help with containment and earlier intervention where needed. The intervention, though, would be dependant on the available facilities. Like number of ventilators (growing) and trained staff (reducing initially as people get ill)

Correct ppe should of been in place though for sure but I hope we get out the other side of this sooner rather than later

The modellers have changed it today for the UK

Since our last release, we have been able to include four more days of reported daily deaths for the UK (April 6, 7, 8, 9). The combination of a slower increase in daily deaths reported than previously captured and updated values for gamma based on more locations’ COVID-19 epidemics peaking (as described above) has resulted in notably lower average projections for the UK: at the same predicted peak date for daily COVID-19 deaths, the prediction is now 1,674 deaths (estimate range of 651 to 4,143) on the peak day and 37,494 cumulative deaths (estimate range of 26,149 to 62,519) through the first wave.

I think for the UK they lacked some data and it is starting to become far more realistic

For those that say we shouldn't finger point, it looks like there are concerted efforts to blame officials 'we were only following the science' and Chris Whitty (aka David Kelly) is the chief fall guy. Boris and his government showed criminal complacency in February / early March when they should have been prepping and sequestering PPE to the max. The families of many healthcare and key workers will never forget even if they find it in their hearts to forgive. Nor should we.

Inquiry in due course - but real scrutiny and action is needed now. We have almost the highest level of deaths in the world. Our govts. response has been utterly negligent, irresponsible, amateur. They have blood on their hands. We urgently need grown-up, professional leadership. Maybe a govt. of national emergency. Urgent questions for scrutiny and action: Why do health care workers in other countries have full body suit protection, but not here? Why are flights still allowed in with no checks? Why are they nowhere near adequate levels of testing? Why are there no isolation facilities for people who are infected? Why are people being left to die in care homes? Why are many countries requiring face masks in shops, but not here? Why are other countries disinfecting streets, but not here? Why are other countries redeploying thousands of furloughed workers to contact trace, but not here?

The inquiry/ scrutiny needs to start now. We deserve so much better than this criminal shambles.

To be fair, the SAGE reports are most illuminating in their total lack of any actual insight or prediction. If this is the science that Johnson had to follow, then it is hardly suprising that wrong decision were made. Having read almost all the minutes, there is absolutely zero sense of urgency, or impending danger, being transmitted in any of them. I'm an out and out red under the bed, and even I think that the science from the SAGE reports has been the most wishy washy, pathetic information, based 90% on crap, inappropriate models, and about 10% on actual hard data coming out of places actually experiencing the virus before us.

Unfortunately, for the Govt and deniers, we have advisers on record promoting herd immunity:

'The UK's chief scientific adviser has said the government wants 60 per cent of the population to catch coronavirusto try and create “herd immunity” to protect against the virus becoming an annual crisis.'

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-herd-immunity-uk-nhs-outbreak-pandemic-government-a9399101.html?__twitter_impression=true

11 March 2020: Dr David Halpern (chief executive of the government-owned Behavioural Insights Team i.e. their "nudge unit") uses "herd immunity" on the record to explain the plan being followed to have the coronavirus spread through the UK population.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-51828000?__twitter_impression=true

Testing helps to keep numbers down with efficient isolation of those infected, tracking and strict quarantine of anyone who has been in contact with them.

Countries with better control also encourage the use of masks by everyone out in the public.

It won’t make a difference without a well planned approach though.
At the moment lockdown of varying degrees seems to be the only approach for us until there is a vaccine.

@sessell Hancock was talking today like PPE was some sort of rare-earth mineral rather than easily manufactured stuff. If you can knock up ventilators in a week then PPE is a total breeze. All healthcare workers, bus drivers, supermarket workers, posties and the GENERAL POPULATION should have it in spades. WE DON'T. Totally fucking criminal in any universe.

But hey Boris, clapping and Ocado slots - makes me sick.

Less people died in March 2020 than they did in March 2019. There definitely needs to be a public enquiry.

@BunsyGirl if true then Boris has trashed the economy for absolutely fuck all. Please elaborate.

Nrft but I agree there should be a full public enquiry.

@vera99 you can find the statistics online. Deaths for March 2019 and for March 2020 were both around 44,000. Slightly lower in March 2019. It is going to be interesting to see the April statistics.

@vera99 I don’t believe that we can blame Boris. Practically every country in the World is in lockdown.

Well, then and your view is controversial we are all served with supine sheep-like leaders that would lead us into the abyss. A curse on all their houses (if true). Time to wo(man) the barricades.

@vera99 www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=%2fpeoplepopulationandcommunity%2fbirthsdeathsandmarriages%2fdeaths%2fdatasets%2fmonthlyfiguresondeathsregisteredbyareaofusualresidence%2f2019/publishedoutputdecember2019.xls

But nobody told people they must attend these gatherings pre lockdown. Common sense, would have made most people think twice about going to a football match, Crufts or festivals or go away on holiday and remain stranded. Mostly justified by having paid for the tickets. The news were alarming enough to think twice. People do need to take some responsibility for their actions. Unless it’s work related and important, leisure activities were not exactly the best of destinations. It was on the news, it wasn’t a secret. I pulled out of a few things before there was even talk about a lockdown and some friends must have thought I was being difficult or overreacting.

However, the situation with the PPE is abysmal and stock should have been available - without a question. The blame would ultimately lie with the financial directors of some hospitals or they’d find somebody else to blame whoever rejected proposals to have stock. When we know underfunding is at the base of a lot of wrongs within the NHS.

@vera99 This virus has undoubtably put healthcare systems around the World under a lot of pressure. My view is controversial but my mum died of respiratory illness in 2012 after being ill for more than 15 years. Every winter we knew that each cold that she caught could kill her and we saw the pressure the hospitals were under (under Labour and Conservative governments). She once had seven different hospital beds in six days as the hospital buckled under the number of people it needed to deal with. No one gave a rat’s arse. It certainly wasn’t on the news. Ultimately, she picked up an infection in hospital. We don’t know whether that killed or her existing problems. What we do know is that she was terminally ill and no one could save her. That is the case for a number of people dying now. Not all, but a significant number. That’s why the overall death figures may not be as bad as people imagine. We will have to see what April brings to get a better idea.

@BunsyGirl You may or may not be right in the round. But no government would ever admit this was for nothing. It will be spun that actions taken stopped it happening like the Y2K bug. And that will be unprovable as we didn't do nothing. And what is happening in hospitals now is certainly not nothing nor is Boris's illness.

@BunsyGirl thanks for sharing you poignant memories - there is a lot of truth in what you are saying.