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There must be a public inquiry

221 replies

Haplap · 08/04/2020 09:25

And criminal charges. This government will have been responsible for so many avoidable deaths:

UK is projected to have over 3 times as many deaths as Italy by August (66 000 V 20 000):

covid19.healthdata.org/united-kingdom

They took all the wrong decisions despite the scientific advice:

www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-path-speci-idUSKBN21P1VF

Stop clapping, start scrutinising!

OP posts:
cakeisalwaystheanswer · 08/04/2020 19:02

Those suggesting that the UK has missed out on ventilators from the EU programme should be aware that they haven't even been sourced yet, no contracts have been signed and no orders made. There are doubts that any will be available.

www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-eu-ventilators/no-quick-deliveries-of-covid-19-ventilators-eu-says-idUSKBN21L1RM

The lack of PPE is appalling and I think we are all horrified about how our medics have been let down. I cover Germany for a big project and I read the German news everyday and I CBA to find the article now but Merkel is on record the other day saying that never again will Germany outsource the production of face masks (horse,stable door, bolted). Even the germans are now struggling with PPE.

www.dw.com/en/us-firm-denies-german-piracy-claims-over-vanished-face-masks/a-53017112

LastTrainEast · 08/04/2020 19:02

"lockdown lite" I think they could be firmer about it, but they shouldn't need to be. This lockdown would work better if most people were not saying:

"but I don't have do do what the government says and you're all meanies for saying I should"

"yes but it doesn't apply to me because..."

"they said exercise was ok so I'm taking family and friends for a mountain climbing trip"

Not to mention early on "well of course I'm going out as the government haven't told me to stop yet"

It's been like trying to get a toddler to keep their gloves on in freezing weather.

And of course there can't be a full lockdown though I sort of wish we could do it for 24 hours to make that point clear.

Turn off the water and electricity, and close everything including all hospitals. Let any fires burn, no banks so no money, but no food shops to spend it in anyway.

PomBearsyummy · 08/04/2020 19:03

Why? This is a once in a century pandemic event. You cannot expect them to have all the answers. Lets just get through this thing done and move on. Please.

SorrelBlackbeak · 08/04/2020 19:06

@LastTrainEast most people aren't saying that. Most people are staying in and abiding by the lockdown. There are questions about what is allowed, but actually compliance has been pretty good.

Switching off water and electricity and closing all the hospitals for a night would be a great way to create huge amounts of crime but free up most ICU beds. Shame about the people using them.

Bool · 08/04/2020 19:06

@pombearsyummy could not agree more

pigsDOfly · 08/04/2020 19:26

@PomBearsyummy Absolutely spot on.

I'm not a fan of Boris Johnson on any level and didn't vote conservative but tbh I can't see how anyone could have judged how to deal with this well.

It feels like it would have been impossible to get it right, whatever was done.

I know people who are still not adhering to the lockdown advice. As pp has said you only have to read threads on mn to know that a lot of people don't think the rules apply to them, so putting a lockdown in place too early just wouldn't have worked.

PPE should have been dealt with better and testing is dire but it's unprecedented, it was never going to run smoothly. We need those things to improve as a matter of urgency.

We just need to get through this and at some distant date perhaps it will be appropriate to have a public enquiry so that we can see where things went wrong and how we can improve in the future, but at the moment a public enquiry is the last thing we should be thinking about.

coachman · 08/04/2020 19:39

Pombearsmummy I agree. No-one could have predicted this and we all need to work together to get through it in the best way possible.

TheCanterburyWhales · 08/04/2020 19:43

Well, once it started sweeping across other countries they could have perhaps foreseen a tiny bit that it might possibly be the same in the UK.

TheCanterburyWhales · 08/04/2020 19:45

LastTrain- absolutely. You only have to read MN to see that. Sad

Orangecake123 · 08/04/2020 19:50

I agree.

It was allowed to spread.

The best is still yet to come....

thatgingergirl · 08/04/2020 19:59

kwhs10 - thank you for that explanation about testing, and I agree with everything else you've said.

helpfulperson · 08/04/2020 20:05

Presumably all those of you who know how the Gov should have made a better job of this will be standing for parliment at the next election? Since you would be so good at leading the country.

middleager · 08/04/2020 20:08

I agree OP. Squishy sums it up.

We were on here in Jan and Feb shouting it from the roof tops, we had a window of time and warnings from Italy, while the Govt were still pontificating over Brexit.

Mlou32 · 08/04/2020 20:15

I disagree. It was a totally unprecedented situation and governments all over the world did the best they could with the resources that they had. Every country is different, different resources, different people who would be willing to follow different rules ie the obedient Japanese society compared to the downright disrespectful of any sort of authority Brits.

middleager · 08/04/2020 20:42

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30727-3/fulltext

When this is all over, the NHS England board should resign in their entirety.” So wrote one National Health Service (NHS) health worker last weekend. The scale of anger and frustration is unprecedented, and coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) is the cause. The UK Government's Contain–Delay–Mitigate–Research strategy failed. It failed, in part, because ministers didn't follow WHO's advice to “test, test, test” every suspected case. They didn't isolate and quarantine. They didn't contact trace. These basic principles of public health and infectious disease control were ignored, for reasons that remain opaque. The UK now has a new plan—Suppress–Shield–Treat–Palliate. But this plan, agreed far too late in the course of the outbreak, has left the NHS wholly unprepared for the surge of severely and critically ill patients that will soon come. I asked NHS workers to contact me with their experiences. Their messages have been as distressing as they have been horrifying. “It's terrifying for staff at the moment. Still no access to personal protective equipment [PPE] or testing.” “Rigid command structures make decision making impossible.” “There's been no guidelines, it's chaos.” “I don't feel safe. I don't feel protected.” “We are literally making it up as we go along.” “It feels as if we are actively harming patients.” “We need protection and prevention.” “Total carnage.” “NHS Trusts continue to fail miserably.” “Humanitarian crisis.” “Forget lockdown—we are going into meltdown.” “When I was country director in many conflict zones, we had better preparedness.” “The hospitals in London are overwhelmed.” “The public and media are not aware that today we no longer live in a city with a properly functioning western health-care system.” “How will we protect our patients and staff…I am speechless. It is utterly unconscionable. How can we do this? It is criminal…NHS England was not prepared…We feel completely helpless.”

England's Deputy Chief Medical Officer, Jenny Harries, said on March 20, 2020: “The country has a perfectly adequate supply of PPE.” She claimed that supply pressures had now been “completely resolved”. I am sure Dr Harries believed what she said. But she was wrong and she should apologise to the thousands of health workers who still have no access to WHO-standard PPE. I receive examples daily of doctors having to assess patients with respiratory symptoms but who do so without the necessary PPE to complete their jobs safely. Health workers are challenged if they ask for face masks. Even where there is PPE, there may be no training. WHO standards are not being met. Proper testing of masks is being omitted. Stickers with new expiry dates are being put on PPE that expired in 2016. Doctors have been forced to go to hardware stores to buy their own face masks. Patients with suspected COVID-19 are mixing with non-COVID-19 patients. The situation is so dire that staff are frequently breaking down in tears. As one physician wrote, “The utter failure of sound clinical leadership will lead to an absolute explosion of nosocomial COVID-19 infection.” Front-line staff are already contracting and dying from the disease.
The NHS has been wholly unprepared for this pandemic. It's impossible to understand why. Based on their modelling of the Wuhan outbreak of COVID-19, Joseph Wu and his colleagues wrote in The Lancet on Jan 31, 2020: “On the present trajectory, 2019-nCoV could be about to become a global epidemic…for health protection within China and internationally…preparedness plans should be readied for deployment
at short notice, including securing supply chains of pharmaceuticals, personal protective equipment, hospital supplies, and the necessary human resources to deal with the
consequences of a global outbreak of this magnitude." This warning wasn't made lightly. It should have been read by the Chief Medical Officer, the Chief Executive Officer of the NHS in England, and the Chief Scientific Adviser.

They had a duty to immediately put the NHS and British public on high alert. February should have been used to expand coronavirus testing capacity, ensure the distribution of WHO-approved PPE, and establish training programmes and guidelines to protect NHS staff. They didn't take any of those actions. The result has been chaos and panic across the NHS. Patients will die unnecessarily. NHS staff will die unnecessarily. It is, indeed, as one health worker wrote last week, “a national scandal”. The gravity of that scandal has yet to be understood.

Haplap · 08/04/2020 21:17

Spot on middleager. Really helpful links to other articles too. I hope people take the time to look at the evidence.

OP posts:
1forsorrow · 08/04/2020 21:42

I'm not a fan of Boris Johnson on any level and didn't vote conservative but tbh I can't see how anyone could have judged how to deal with this well. He let the Chelteham Festival go ahead, he let Crufts go ahead, he didn't close down any sports events that week, the FA or whoever governs football did so they could see the problem how come our govt couldn't? He bragged about shaking hands with people in a hospital with confirmed COVID patients.

I don't care about being a fan or not being a fan mistakes were clearly made, if the footballers are having to give the lead to the science led govt it really makes me question what is going on.

BMW6 · 08/04/2020 22:20

Why? This is a once in a century pandemic event. You cannot expect them to have all the answers. Lets just get through this thing done and move on. Please.

100% agree.

pigsDOfly · 08/04/2020 23:10

@1forsorrow I didn't say I thought he dealt with it well. I said I didn't think anyone would have known how to deal with it.

He made a hell of a lot of mistakes, but whoever had been in charge, if it hadn't been him, would have got it wrong.

Frankly, given our current government and the opposition, we're pretty much screwed both ways.

happyandsingle · 08/04/2020 23:28

Yes there should be a national enquiry about why china downplayed this illness, lied about the numbers, warned us when it was to late and convinetly got rid of anyone that tried to speak out about it.
Chinese government are the only ones with blood on their hands and I hope they are dealt with when all this is over.

Sosadandempty · 08/04/2020 23:36

Slow to act.

Lack of PPE for healthcare workers.

No testing.

This country is a pathetic shambles as per usual.

^ this, not to mention the initial herd immunity plan which according to Matt Hancock is not a thing and never happened.

And yes there should be a public enquiry. They lie and spin for a living, but on this they can’t be allowed to get away with it.

SnoozyLou · 08/04/2020 23:39

Doesn't something have to have actually happened before you have a public inquiry about it?

At this stage, it's speculation.

User7764217 · 08/04/2020 23:46

No. We were slow, yes. This though is a pandemic and there isn’t an idiots guide to keeping the whole Country alive during a pandemic.

An inquiry would divide us even more I think. There’s too much hate in this Country already.

excitedmumtobe87 · 08/04/2020 23:52

It’s clear we all have different opinions on this. And that’s why in the years to come there should most definitely be a full enquiry to show what went right and what went wrong. If people are to be blamed or not do so. Most importantly we need to discover the lessons learned. And improve for next time. We owe it to future generations.

Of course there should be an enquiry.