BCG tuberculosis vaccine may be protective against COVID-19

[rvby]

economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/healthcare/biotech/healthcare/nations-without-bcg-vaccination-saw-higher-cases/articleshow/74956201.cms?from=mdr

Countries with a broad BCG vaccination program seem to have 1/10 the infection rates and illness rates compared to those without such a program. Sounds like there will be some trials of the vaccine for frontline staff to see if it helps reduce mortality.

I grew up in a developing country and received the BCG. Turns out it protects me from all kinds of bugs! Not just coronaviruses...

Yes, DH and I both got. We are 34, I grew up in Scotland and him in England. The scar isn't overly noticeable, only with a tan! This is interesting as I was just speaking to DH about the BCG the other day as we were reminiscing after DD got her MMR.

@BreconBeBuggered the chest X-ray was to check if you actually had TB at the time as you had had a positive Heaf test. This is the name given to the circular needle test you had to check for previous exposure thus immunity to TB.

If that were really true then India would have nothing to worry about - their BCG programme is amazing (and was particularly good for older people) as are most South Asian countries. The simple reason why non-BCG nations get it worse is because they tend to be in the west and have older people

I’m 30 and I had a BCG

"It was nationally schools for children aged 14 from 1953 to 2005"

Not everywhere. I'm 43 and did not have it at school, no-one in our county did.

From the NHS website:

If you've had the BCG vaccination, you may have a mild skin reaction to the Mantoux test. This does not necessarily mean you have latent TB.

I had a mild reaction to the test at school, the nurse checked my arm where I had two scars and said I’d already been given the BCG, so I didn’t need it again.

Mum later told me these were two smallpox scars but I wasn’t going to mention that to the school nurse...

My newborn had it - it is routinely offered to people with links to South Asia and Africa

I think they used to use the heaf test (Daisy) in the UK rather than Mantoux this was what I had c.2003.

Oh well. Im 42 and high risk and didnt have it. Daughter did, and when we did have a viral cough recently was the only one not to get it. I keep hoping it was IT but given my high risk status think it unlikely.

@ofwarren, @rufflecrow

I was told at school that it was an antibody test too - I don't think it was a lie as such, just a misconception/over-simplification. Kids that reacted to the skin test were supposed to be screened for TB but the test was to check you would tolerate the main jab well rather than to check for antibodies as such.

I'm not an expert btw, just did a ton of reading the other day when BCG was first mooted as possibly being beneficial for CV. I was surprised at this too!

I had it at school. I'm 40.

DD (14) missed out as she was born in 2006, but we paid for her to have it done privately as a nurse friend of ours told us that TB was on the rise. DS (9) and DD (5) both had it in hospital at birth - standard in inner london boroughs. Apparently in outer boroughs and beyond its only given to those from certain ethnic groups as it is in such short supply.

This is on Wikipedia:

A reactive tuberculin skin test is a contraindication to BCG. Someone with a positive tuberculin reaction is not given BCG, because the risk of severe local inflammation and scarring is high, not because of the common misconception that tuberculin reactors "are already immune" and therefore do not need BCG.

BUT the NHS website says the skin test tests for immunity

I wish I hadn't posted (twice now) with such confidence.

I'm 53 and had the jab, it bloody hurt and your arm went numb for a while. We didn't have any test before hand, just lind up and got it from a nurse.
You had to have it done by the gp who came into school if you had asthma.

@GrumpyHoonMain you are right because all my 4 children had BCG vaccines.

As fascinating as it is reading about all the posters who have had the vaccine slight sarcasm I was hoping for an actual discussion on this!

I don't think BCG in its current form offers protection, but I think something in the vaccine will be added with something else to produce a vaccine against Covid 19.

It's interesting if the idea is those who have had BCG could get a milder version of COVID-19. I remember having it early 2000s.

Also just intrigued as I the idea it boosts immune system responses. Especially in women it's already being noticed our immune works better than mens (seriously Coronavirus is a great educator on so many different areas if only this benefit). So just wondering if it could be a positive double whammy whereby the covid-19 is milder for lots. Also when people are saying there entire area in the UK, didn't have BCG in the past is there more instances of serious cases of COVID-19? More deaths?

Also wondering if this is linked to my chronic hives - immune system is in overdrive. I don't like it for the hives but it is rare for me to get very ill, I have never ever had the flu for instance.

I had the arm stamp test (apologies don't know the formal name) when I was in school but I didn't need the jab as I'd had it already as an infant because my grandad was diagnosed with TB and there was some sort of programme to vaccinate family members. Not clear what it was tho. I was born in 1979.

I've been in isolation for three weeks for Covid 19 symptoms, but aside from three days of a raging temp, mild cough and chronic fatigue it hasn't been massively bad and I have now recovered fully this week.

All healthcare professionals will have had the BCG already.

As I understand it, the trial is to see if a booster injection might give protection against COVID-19 for HCPs as there is evidence that the vaccine boosts immunity to other respiratory diseases in the short term. As a PP said, it is already used as immunotherapy in the treatment of early bladder cancer. Unfortunately there is a worldwide shortage of the vaccine and it takes a long time to produce.

That would be good, though it's not clear yet whether it's causation or correlation.

On a national level it's good because if true, they can investigate why and possibly use something we already have to create a vaccine.

On a purely selfish level because I've had it done, but more importantly because DD had it done only 8 years ago. If it offers some protections I'm all for that.

I missed it at school and I called as an adult and asked if I should have it. They sounded bored and said, "no, oh and what job do you do by the way?" I replied "I work in a homeless hostel" and I had an appointment for the next day That would have been 25 years ago now so who knows.

I would be interested in the results of further studies on this.

I missed my BCG vaccine at school and I was hospitalised with Coronavirus but DH & DCs only had it mildly.

We had ‘the six needles’, which would tell us whether we needed ‘the TB’. This was in secondary school, in year 8 or 9 I think. I remember the six needles being like a stamp.
Everyone I know always called it the TB, as in ‘did you have a TB done when you were in school’
I didn’t know it was actually called a BCG until my kids had it done as babies.

I also remember them saying if you didn’t get a scar, it meant it didn’t work, and you needed to get it done again.

All healthcare professionals will have had the BCG already.

Didn't save those 2 nurses in their 30s from dying of covid, then. :(

I had the bcg done either 2007/08. It was those who had parents that weren’t born in the uk that had to have it done.

'Correlation doesn't mean causation.'

This bears repeating again and again during these times.

This aside, immunity conferred by many vaccinations declines. See mumps in university students (which has been happening for years and isn't by any means just down to the generation due to be MMRed at the time of the Wakefield saga being of university age now). (Note that is not an anti-vax statement in any way, shape or form. The answer would be finding out more about declining immunity and giving boosters, not not vaccinating).

I would actually say (not a media or scientist...) that possibly any kind of vaccination is protective in the sense that it much reduces the possibility of another severe challenge to the immune system happening alongside coronavirus (I should think getting whooping cough or pneumococcal disease alongisde Covid-19 is not great, for instance) or having weakened the system previously. And also perhaps because of the controlled challenges to the immune system vaccines represent - I have wondered whether this is part of the reason for the low severity in children - their immune systems are used to dealing with new infections all the time, in the wild and via vaccines.