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BCG tuberculosis vaccine may be protective against COVID-19

139 replies

rvby · 07/04/2020 21:24

economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/healthcare/biotech/healthcare/nations-without-bcg-vaccination-saw-higher-cases/articleshow/74956201.cms?from=mdr

Countries with a broad BCG vaccination program seem to have 1/10 the infection rates and illness rates compared to those without such a program. Sounds like there will be some trials of the vaccine for frontline staff to see if it helps reduce mortality.

I grew up in a developing country and received the BCG. Turns out it protects me from all kinds of bugs! Not just coronaviruses...

OP posts:
Violetroselily · 07/04/2020 21:54

I'm 29 and had it at school, in 2003 or 2004. I think I was one of the last year groups to have it.

Menora · 07/04/2020 21:56

If it gives max immunity for 20 years then only people who got it between 2000 and 2005 are ‘protected’

If this is to be true

ArkAtEee · 07/04/2020 21:56

I'm 44 and didn't have it and neither did any of my school friends, so it wasn't that I was off that day. I had never even heard of it until a uni friend showed me their scar! Grin

40somethingJBJ · 07/04/2020 21:56

I’m nearly 42 and I’ve still got the scar from mine. I can remember being really complacent when I had the antibody test, as I’d been in close contact with somebody infected with TB (a foster child we had staying with us) so I was convinced I was immune as I hadn’t caught it, despite sharing glasses etc, as kids do! I wasn’t immune and I had to have the damn needle.

TabbyMumz · 07/04/2020 21:57

"Funnily enough I don't have the crater that everyone else tends to have."
I think the crater mark was from the smallpox jab. I have one and I didnt have the BCG.

Sparklingbrook · 07/04/2020 21:57

I had the skin test and needed the vaccine, DH had the test and didn't.

GinWithASplashOfTonic · 07/04/2020 21:58

I'm late 20s and had one

BentNeckLady · 07/04/2020 21:59

I’m 40 and haven’t had it. I don’t think it was ever given to everyone.

EggsFried · 07/04/2020 22:00

I'm 27 and had it in school (I think in Year 8), but I think we were the last year to have it routinely, at least in my area (Midlands).

Random18 · 07/04/2020 22:00

Taby I'm sure it was the BCG. I'm not aware i had smallpox vaccine.

haverhill · 07/04/2020 22:01

I’m 49 and have a scar in my arm from it because I cannot leave scabs alone.

Walkaround · 07/04/2020 22:02

The UK national BCG programme stopped in 2005. Now you are only offered the BCG if living in a higher risk area (eg bits of London).

IronNeonClasp · 07/04/2020 22:03

Was just talking about it to my friend about it. We had a 'daisy' first on the wrist to see how you reacted. Then the two injections a couple of weeks later?

Crayfishforyou · 07/04/2020 22:04
Sad I got mine done in 1996 And I have corona virus Sad
mumwon · 07/04/2020 22:04

I would say treat this with deep reservation - so many rumours so little proof - as pp have stated bcg has very short life span - because of this. even though I had proof I had previously had it - 2 placements insisted that I had to have it redone ( NHS insisted I had it redone although it was less than 3 years after the previous vaccination I think I have had this at least 4 times before the age of 20) I think its a 3 year cycle

Missillusioned · 07/04/2020 22:04

Possibly those countries without a BCG vaccine program have a larger number of people with damaged lungs from TB who then experience greater mortality from Covid19?

You can't establish cause and effect from a correlation. Often there is a third (or more) factor that is influencing things.

BreconBeBuggered · 07/04/2020 22:06

I didn't have the vaccine because of my reaction to the test, but they did send me off for a chest X-ray instead. What was that about, does anyone remember?

SwedishEdith · 07/04/2020 22:08

If it gives max immunity for 20 years then only people who got it between 2000 and 2005 are ‘protected’

Interesting. So, those who are now 29 to 34. If they actually got it, of course.

I missed the smallpox vaccination and that is the one I remember giving a crater. The BCG gave a lump but not sure I can still see mine anymore.

Random18 · 07/04/2020 22:11

Thinking about crater, it was my mum who has one. So it may have been smallpox for her.

dementedpixie · 07/04/2020 22:11

BCG tends to leave a scar. My brother has quite a large scar compared to my very small one. NHS says it lasts 15 years and maybe up to 60 years.

Says it's not as effective if give to adults compared to children

mumwon · 07/04/2020 22:12

there is also another theory about blood groups - that people with A are more likely to have issues - this kind of thing is based on is incidence & hypothesis & actually anecdotal not proven - not reproducible in another neutral setting only this is a basis of treatment where properly screened trials & blind trials establish the worth of treatment &/or proper statistical records of comparing like with like & examining backgrounds

IronNeonClasp · 07/04/2020 22:13

@Crayfishforyou - not saying people won't get it. But it might be s milder version.

Petiolaris · 07/04/2020 22:14

The UK gave BCG vaccines to secondary school pupils between 1953 and 2005. So if you were born between approx 1940 and 1995 you’ve probably had it, i.e. most people aged 25-80. Clearly it isn’t helping that much because people are still dying. If BCG is effective, it’s probably only for a short period after vaccination. Maybe they will re-vaccinate us all?

WhereverIMayRoam · 07/04/2020 22:16

Article from yesterday’s Irish Times copied below. It’s a maybe but it seems to be respected researchers and clinical trials have begun.

    More “striking” evidence has emerged that the BCG vaccine given to counter TB may provide protection against Covid-19 and significantly reduce death rates in countries with high levels of vaccination.

A study of 178 countries by an Irish medical consultant working with epidemiologists at the University of Texas in Houston shows countries with vaccination programmes – including Ireland – have far fewer coronavirus cases by a factor 10, compared to where BCG programmes are no longer deployed.
This translates into a death rate up to 20-times less, according to urologist Paul Hegarty of the Mater Hospital, Dublin.
Their “correlation” study, expected to be published shortly by PLOS journal, is largely a statistical one and comes with caveats because of possibility of confounding factors. But it is more comprehensive than an initial one conducted in New York, which prompted a scaling up of clinical trials on people with Covid-19.

To reduce the possibility of error, the researchers re-evaluated cases during the course of the pandemic and made country-by-country comparisons including between Ireland and the UK, Mr Hegarty said. “We did not expect to see such a marked difference.”
“Over the 15 days, incidence of Covid-19 was 38 per million in countries with BCG vaccination whereas the incidence of Covid-19 was 358 per million in the absence of such a programme. The death rate was 4.28 per million in countries with BCG programmes and 40 per million in countries without such a programme,” he added.

He trained in Houston but continued to work with colleagues there as BCG vaccine is used to treat bladder cancer and reduces its recurrence – another indication it has broader benefits beyond TB.
A global shortage of BCG vaccine prompted the Department of Health to end blanket immunisation in 2015 though it is believed there is a high degree of immunity within the Irish population. It is still widely used in developing countries, where it prevents infant deaths from a variety of causes. The UK ran a more modest BCG vaccination programme to Ireland’s, starting in 1953 and ending in 2005.

BCG-vaccinated older people experience decreased respiratory infections while in bladder cancer patients BCG boosts immunity, reduces tumour size and decreases mortality.
Mr Hegarty said they were heartened by similar results to the New York study and were in discussion about a clinical trial in the US. This would be targeted at healthcare workers experiencing “shocking” rates of infectivity – accounting for one in four cases in Ireland.
As the pandemic unfolds clinical trials were critical, given a coronavirus vaccine “is expected to take a minimum of 12 to 18 months to develop. In the meantime, repurposing existing and safe vaccines that induce non-specific immune benefits may be an additional tool”.

On Monday, scientists in Melbourne, Australia, started administering BCG vaccine or a placebo to thousands of healthcare workers. A clinical trial of 1,000 healthcare workers started recently in the Netherlands, said Dr Mihai Netea of Radboud University Medical Centre.
He said he expected results within three to six months. He did not advocate giving the vaccine to populations until that was completed because of the possibility of side effects as a novel virus was involved, and because not enough vaccine was available – though production could be scaled up quickly.
Immunologist Prof Luke O’Neill of Trinity College, who has worked on the vaccine for years, confirmed at least seven trials had begun or were about to begin but stressed the need for physical distancing and hardwashing proven ways to curb transmission.

The non-specific immune benefits of BCG are known for decades. Introduced to Ireland in 1937, it has a strong safety record. Recent studies show revaccination is safe.
US virologist Robert Gallo of the Institute of Human Virology in Maryland has confirmed he is working with a team who will make an announcement shortly that will have “a major effect” on global efforts to tackle Covid-19.

RuffleCrow · 07/04/2020 22:16

I had it as a teenager because i grew up in East London where it was normal to have as a teenager- my dcs have grown up elsewhere and so haven't had it.