Working a full day job at home with kids

[bombaychef]

Is it just me that is getting really hacked off with employers who expect people to be able to work a full normal day job at home (full 37 hours) whilst looking after DC at the same time. My job is flexible thankfully yet DHs job expect him to carry on as if nothing much is happening. No allowance except when the 37 hours are done. I've had to use annual leave to cover for his non key worker job..

Your employer had a duty of care for you. Your children absolutely come first. You need to tell them you can’t work as much because the kids need attending too etc. They can’t just sit bored all day it’s not fair on them or you. My employer had been really nice and understanding.
I think there will be a lot of unfair employment court battles after this is over.

I'm with you OP. It is impossible to work with young children not forgetting some home schooling too. I am so stressed out by this I couldn't sleep until 5am yesterday. My employer is being very reasonable but this week I took annual leave. I want to tell them I just can't work but am scared once this all calms down it will impact me longer term. I just wish working parents were identified as a group that will struggle and given the support as oppose to us having to seek it out. I also found out that even though I am a key worker my children can't go to school after Easter holidays because I can WFH. So like you am expected to work and do all the childcare. WTAF.

I read some meme the other day that said "you're not 'working from home' . You're at home during a national crisis, trying to work". I thought this was an important distinction. Can he talk to his manager and explain the situation at home?

hacked off with employers who expect people to be able to work a full normal day job at home (full 37 hours)
Do you expect to be paid for the full 37 hours? Why not ask his employer to reduce his hours and work part time?

If they say he needs to do 37 hours but it doesn’t matter when they are done, isn’t that flexibility? What more would you hope for in terms of being both fair to them and him?

It’s tough, I have a 3yo and a 1yo at home whilst trying to work, DP is a keyworker so I am on my own with them. I get most of my hours in when they are in bed. I only work 28 hours anyway but have been using annual leave to drop a day and then spread the 21 hours im getting paid to work over 5 evenings. It’s not ideal but I think it’s important that we all try and continue working if we can.

Can they be flexible with the hours? Me and my husband tag team throughout the day so get about 5 hours done each between 7-7. Then we both work after kids go to bed. So we're doing 40 hour weeks each. 1 and 5 year old.

My boss keeps having long 1hr plus conference calls that are totally unnecessary. I have to make sure I have a movie on. Doesn’t consult me as to what time suits or anything just expects me to work as usual. Typical childless man to be honest. He makes all the right noises but then just ploughs on as normal no consideration. It is so stressful and making me cranky with the children. Still I’m lucky I can keep them at home as my workplace is pushing sending children to school even if you can work from home (I am a keyworker as is hubby although he has to go out to work) but to be honest I wouldn’t be comfortable with them going to school at the minute. So I’ll have to just manage Incase they try and force the school thing.

I have been taking some annual leave too. My employer has been reasonable though and is offering full pay to those impacted by childcare. Some colleagues have gone down to 4-5 hour days on full pay. I haven't needed that as mine are a little older (8 and 10) but it is still quite stressful. Have been grateful a number of times over the last few weeks that this didn't happen 4-5 years ago

Can you have a timetable of who works when & who looks after the DC? If DH can work whenever can he do the weekends & have 2 days off in the week? Split mornings & afternoons between you?

We both work full time and have a little boy (2). It is a lot trying to concentrate / take calls etc. but people at work are very understanding if they can hear him in the background.
We are also trying to keep in the back of our heads that him watching tv more than I’d like him to isn’t going to ruin him for the rest of his life. We still paint, bake, cook and go on walks together and speak lots through the day, so he is ok, maybe just not having quite as much fun and activity as when he is at nursery or spending time with us at the weekend.

I'm a SAHM and I'm finding it hard so I think you're all doing an incredible job. Inflexible employers is why I'm not in the workplace anymore. I guess they have to over a barrel as everyone will naturally be worried about job security with a huge recession coming.
When will employers learn that people are more productive if you trust them to get on with it?

Do you think employers are less flexible for men? I always found DH’s employer expected me to pick up the childcare if a child was sick etc (I always insisted we took it in turns to take days off which they always seemed to have a problem with) and now we’re at home they’re being much less flexible than my employer. Or is it that my DH needs to be more assertive and explain this is not normal working from home? I don’t know. Maybe some employers are just arseholes. This is a completely different thing to normal working from home. Of course productivity is going to be down whilst parents also care for their children, anyone who thinks otherwise is in complete denial.

I think employers are indeed less flexible for men, and that this is the next feminist battle we need to face. I notice my DH is very very anxious these days to pretend everything is as normal for his (male) boss who wants to plough on as normal, while my (female) boss smiles as the kids come sit on my knee during conference calls. The laughable thing is that given his job is international sales and most places are shut, he has very little to do, while my job for a healthcare company is flat out.

This sounds like a DH problem. What has your H done to adjust his work to meet his parenting responsibilities at this time?

Many men don’t even ask their employers for flexibility: perhaps some would rather do paid work than parenting and domestic work, others fear being penalised at work (the “motherhood penalty”).

Or is it that my DH needs to be more assertive and explain this is not normal working from home

^its likely to be more this. I work with fathers but it’s interesting how the mothers manage to sort out part time flexible working and leave on time yet the dads don’t.

Funny that

However during this covid 19 crisis I’ve been struck by the appalling insensitivity displayed by senior execs who don’t have children.

Parents are being expected to unilaterally pick up the pieces after central government decided to close schools. Suggesting that they should take a pay cut is outrageous - they did not make this choice.

I’ve found men will claim their employers are inflexible and yet they basically haven’t asked or tried to work something out with them. It’s not entirely their fault - not many men work flexibly around childcare (although it is increasingly more common.) Perhaps you should ask your DH to discuss with his employer. I had to persuade DD’s dad to do this but now he’s delighted as it’s opened his eyes to the joys of flexible working!

My DH has been given much more flexibility during this crisis, but he was the one who asked for it! As a female in a typically male role I didn't want to look like I couldn't cope, whereas hes a male in a typically female environment and he went straight into work and explained how this was affecting us and what he needed them to do to help. We had done a spreadsheet of how we were going to do our hours flexibly beforehand (both emergency services out at work) which I think helped as it showed we had thought about it and were prepared to offer solutions. I was sent home from work on Sunday night with a cough, so I'm now isolating for the 7 days while he was the 14 days. Hes been given a chance to work flexibly from home, but they have said if it is too difficult with the children they have increased his dependent leave allowance.

Not during this crisis, but when my DH asked for flexible working he was told 'thats whats your wife is for' he did persevere and win.

Everytime he asks for something like a morning off to go to the hospital with his child they say 'isnt your wife doing it?'

They've even brought up in his appraisals that he is doing well in spite of an awkward wife!

I think ease of the schooling and do it att weekends and during annual leave.

DH and I work for the same employer and although I sense I would be given more leeway as a female it’s compounded by the fact that my DH won’t ask either. So in the past ( probably when DD had chicken pox) I was immediately sent home to collect her with no issues but when it came to sharing the childcare my DH took Annual leave stating that there was no way they’d give him parental leave ( or whichever one is applicable ). That means no men ever asking for concessions that the employer doesn’t have to consider the issue of men as carers and it doesn’t enter their consciousness at all. I’m lucky that I’m WFH while my DH goes in everyday. I’ve had to prompt him to make some arrangements to WFH too because the expectation can’t be that because my part of the organisation are flexible that all the care should fall to me.

@Grasspigeons

Jesus... I’m a key worker in the public sector and there’s no way they’d get away with saying that ( or if they did DH would never tell me knowing I’d be sticking in a grievance in no time at all).

Men behaving like this contributes to discrimination against mothers (and indeed women of childbearing age with no DC).

If there are two of you then split the day? A shift each is what most couples are doing

Me and DH split the day between us - 5 hours each then holiday for the remaining 2.5 hours. We've been told to use 50% of our holiday before the end of June and I'm not going anywhere so using it to shorten my day.

My (male, no kids) boss very understanding and very much 'do what you can, when you can'.

My DH's (female, with a school aged child) boss when this was all kicking off genuinely asked whether a neighbour could care for our child for three months!