Boris in ICU

[PicsInRed]

Oh Boris no 🙁

It's my understanding that the ARDS (acute respiratory distress syndrome) seen in COVID-19 does not always occur with pneumonia, but that does not make it less serious.

And sadly, It's not true to say that most who die slip away peacefully in their sleep or while sedated. Consent has to be gained for treatment or the withdrawal of treatment wherever possible, and patients need to be conscious for that.. Like a PP says it can take time. We have had cases where patients with ARDS have been resistant to normal levels of morphine and even midazolam, although it is always the aim to make patients comfortable, sadly it is not always possible. It's a nasty, nasty illness.

Also wanted to add - IME, the older the patient age group, the better effects the drugs given seem to have for lots of reasons.

I rolled my eyes at the 'fighter,' thing. Does that mean the people that died weren't fighters?

It’s just an expression FFS. I’m sure a lot of people whose relatives have died from this bastard disease probably said the same before their loved ones sadly passed away.

I have a bad feeling about this. Boris is supposed to be the asshole you can ridicule daily for making stupid decisions. He is not supposed to be the one who you are saying prayers for. But I do pray for him and wish him very well. As I do everyone else with this curse.

It’s just an expression FFS

It is just an expression, and a commonly used one (used in some cancer campaigns etc) but it's also true to say some bereaved people do find it insensitive and upsetting on the basis it could suggest that their loved one did not 'fight' or 'battle' hard or well enough. It's a inappropriate analogy IMHO and I would never use it for those reasons, nor would I like it if anyone used the terms to describe any illness I or loved ones may have.

It's a inappropriate analogy IMHO

I agree, I’ve never liked it, it’s usually used for cancer survivors, it implies that those who died didn’t fight hard enough.

I similarly dislike when people are called brave. To me, bravery is doing something off your own back, like running into a burning building to save a baby.
Getting ill is shit, no one chooses it, and all people can do is the best they can.
They don’t have to be ‘brave’ or a ‘fighter’, if they just feel like curling into a ball, that’s okay.

I’m praying for Boris, I really am. We need him.

I agree saying he's a fighter ...that is a way of obliquely saying that he has a fight on his hands, in other words his situation is serious, although stable is good so let's hope 🙏💙

When I survived ICU, my Dad told me, you're a fighter. I'm really not haha. But my body might be. It's just an expression. An expression of hope mostly. We hope that Boris is a 'fighter' i.e. one who manages to fight this. His odds are the same as everyone else.

@starlightgazers @PicturesOfCats clearly some people will find any way they can to criticize. Instead of critiquing someone’s choice of word, stop being so damn petty and try seeing the bigger picture. A man is desperately ill in hospital and his friends and colleagues are entitled to talk about him in whichever way they want.

When I survived ICU, my Dad told me, you're a fighter.

Careful - your dad could get into trouble with the Mumsnet thought police.

Tigger,Although I am of the belief that his treatment will not follow the normal protocol, he clearly is not fine if he has been moved to ICU. There was/is clearly at least a concern that he may need ventilation

larrygrylls I said I thought he would be fine. I am obviously only saying what I think as is everyone else on here as no one really knows.

So hope he is ok soon and my thoughts are will this pregnant girlfriend.

Telling an individual in private they are a fighter, when you believe that person will welcome the sentiment, is one thing. Expecting the use of much reviled marmite phrase to only attract the ‘likes’ is naive. It is quite possible that even those who should know better when choosing language for national broadcast, are actually naive in this respect. Because, mercifully, many people do not come across this issue early in life

“ It’s just an expression FFS”

It’s shit, insensitive and cliched, FFS.

Many unwell people and families don’t use or want to hear it.

I don't know though - I believe there is a medical school of thought which says that some people who have the will to live for some reason, pull through, and others just give up and succumb.

Josiah Mortimer @josiahmortimer
The Times are reporting today that it could be another 10 or so days before Johnson is out of hospital - and he'll need roughly one week off for every day spent in ICU

It is an expression and it can be well meaning of course. There is a reasonable chance Raab is a sociopath so in his case it is probably just saying what he thinks people with real feelings would say.

He should have chosen something else because it is quite misleading about the econd stage of covid. But if anyone is hoping for Raab to ever say the right thing, they will have a long wait.

Source, Peregrina?

There’s not evidence for that. Perhaps in a tiny minority of situations. Survival depends on the medical situation (eg no amount of “fighting” will stop multi organ failure, aneurism or a brain glioblastoma) treatment etc.

It’s unfounded cliche.

I suspect Raab and Gove and all the others don't know what to say really, so are just coming out with platitudes.

It’s shit, insensitive and cliched, FFS.

There was clearly no harm meant, “FFS”, so stop with the nitpicking. And besides, I don’t even understand the negative implication. You can still be a fighter and lose the fight. Where’s the shame in that?

Source, Peregrina?

No, I have no source, just one of those ideas I have seen floating about.

Being a fighter hasn't saved relatives who have passed away. The only concrete example I have is a man who was given six months to live, and decided to live life to the full for that time, and was still going strong 25 years later with the disease totally in remission.

Some people in the country just want to hear their PM will best this, and are reassured by the platitudes
Some people think being a fighter is a good thing in illness
Some people think it doesn't really matter what was said
Some people on here would have been happiest if Raab had said Boris is dying Brexit is off and the Tory party is disbanding
You can't please all of the people all of the time

That's worrying starlightgazers I'd hoped they'd give a morphine overdose to those patients. If there's no hope of pulling through it seems much kinder than letting them suffer the death described.

Do you honestly believe that it would be in any way appropriate for most very elderly people already in care homes to be rushed into an acute care setting for invasive treatment given the outcomes for that category of patient?

I do. A life is a life. That elderly person may have another 5 years of life left to read, have family visit, enjoy their tv shows, have a walk around the garden, even just to smell fresh air. So, basically you are saying, 'oh they're old anyway, if they are sent to hospital, then let them die'.

That's what you're saying? If so, it's a disgraceful, heartless and despicable thing to say! What if that elderly woman or man wants to live, and isn't ready to die yet? Who are you to say, 'oh they're old, lets not resus or anything, let 'em die'? If someone had that heartless attitude to your grandparents or an elderly relative or friend, would you be happy? I cannot you what I'd say or do if my mother was denied 100% effort to save her life, just because she's 73! Needless to say if anyone had the stuff the elderly let them die attitude you describe, my response would not be pretty. At all.

Fair enough if there is genuinely a lack of ventilators and they have to prioritise. But to state regardless that elderly people shouldn't have the same care as someone in their 20s is just absolutely disgusting and makes my blood boil.

73 isn't old in my book! Some very old people do want to go. My DF got like that. But he was 90 and that's the difference.

So, my mum is theatre nurse Nottingham. She used to work at the QMC but now works in a private hospital, still has lots of friends at QMC.

THEY ARE NOT SHORT OF ANYTHING.

The private hospital she works in has been requisitioned to take overflow patients from NHS hospital - theatres been converted to ICUs complete with ventilators and staff all ready - they are all sat twiddling their thumbs! Nottingham has NOT run out of ventilators, they have enough for anyone who needs one and would MEDICALLY BENEFIT from being on one.

IF (and it’s a big if) this person even HAS a brother, and IF his brother was not ventilated, then that would be because of a CLINICAL reason.

This guy saying this is just a bloody liar and anyone that shares it is just spreading his lies and propaganda. And how disgusting to be scaring all the people in Nottingham that may be panicking that there is not enough life saving equipment to go around.

🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬