The exit plan and schools.

[NeverGuessWho]

I know this whole thread will be hearsay, but I’m just interested in hearing people’s opinions of where schools are likely to fit in to the exit plan?

A friend thinks they will be opened early on, as this will free up more people to work, and hence enable furloughed workers to return to work. This will crucially save money.

IMHO, schools will be one of the last restrictions to be lifted. Once schools are opened, there will effectively be multiple mass gatherings in every town and city, all at the same time. Surely this will result in a surge of cases of the virus.

Unless of course, they pursue the antibodies/certified passport route?

What do people think?

Well time will tell whether the Swedish 'solution' works out for them.

I don’t know anyone who wants the Swedish solution. 50% of their health staff have the virus. The WHO has advised them not to follow this procedure.

I certainly don't believe teachers have caused any of this.

I did find Boris J;'s speech today really good BUT he has a state paid salary, the 1.4m NHS workers do, the 500,000 teachers do. I feel we need people who are not paid by the state and have lost their jobs to be the ones deciding what we do in this epidemic, not those who are unaffected by it financially.

And yes I am many others want the Swedish solution.

You want scientific and medical , and even economic, decisions to be made by those who are not experts. Good grief.
Even Michael Gove seems to have changed his mind on seeking expert opinion.

I think it ill advised to call it a solution what with the eugenicist overtones of here immunity plans.

Like Piggy, I would not call it a 'solution', more a 'different approach', and one that IIRC a Swedish leader recently said they weren't certain was the right one, comparing the deaths in Sweden and neighbouring Scandinavian countries.

Everyone's approach is evolving over time and in response to further information - for example, I expect the UK's approach to widening who schools are open to will rightly be informed by experiences in other countries. Equally it may be that Sweden's approach will evolve.

Strict lockdown with huge testing programmes - the Germany model - seems to be highly successful so far, and certainly one I will be following as they start re-opening. Interestingly, South Korea, another approach touted as very successful, has not re-opened schools at all.

I feel we need people who are not paid by the state and have lost their jobs to be the ones deciding what we do in this epidemic, not those who are unaffected by it financially.

Ah well. In that case, you’re out of luck.

I was all for listening to other opinions until you came out with that Xenia. What an utterly ridiculous idea.

Whilst we are at it, why don't those who have lost their jobs put themselves forward to reopen schools and teach the children coming back early? I'd also love to hear your thoughts on how you will then plan to stop the spread of the disease as sending the children back to school and the general public back to work will send the rate of infections right back up again.

I don't want the swedish non solution! I'm glad my Dgd with an auto immune blood disorder is safely tucked away at home not even allowed out for exercise till the virus is almost gone even though her whole future rests on an unfair system devised on a back of an envelope to decide what A level grades she gets after 7 years of working so hard to gain a place at one of the top universities in this country! ( And world).

@BertNErnie agree that a long autumn term isn’t a solution. Think that this should only be done if clear that more lockdowns are coming in autumn. Then those lockdowns can be more like “holidays” without the need to do home learning as the learning will have been done in summer. It’s not ideal but if we are looking at two years of lockdowns with brief periods of freedom then the whole country will need to move to making the best of those periods or some children will get not education at all.

@cantkeepawayforever I think care home workers may fall into the category of people with no ppe, working with large groups often in one room who are vulnerable. Clearly they should have ppe but they don’t.

Surely in this day and age, all schools could just continue virtually?

Kids who don’t have a computer could be supplied with one - problem solved.

I don’t understand why schools are dragging their feet on this or what the ‘safeguarding issues’ are. More like the teachers don’t want anyone scrutinising their practice.

Anyway, they will have to shape up. I read yesterday that the government are setting up virtual schools. I’d infer from this that real schools will not be opening up any time soon.

EYProvider - Theyve only had 10 working days to sort it out! Its year end so the budgets are empty so investing lots of money that doesnt exist in a suitable safe platform, knowing how to use it and changing how you teach to an entirely different format , whikst being on a rota ro childmind should take more than 10 days.
And if you cant see safegauring ssued with things like zoom then thats your ignorance of safeguarding thats the issue.

More like the teachers don’t want anyone scrutinising their practice

Yes, because teachers wants and needs are usually massively influential in shaping school policy, aren’t they?!

Just like the way that we don’t like our practice being scrutinised, so Ofsted was disbanded.

Oh no, wait...

EYProvider, I'm not sure where to start tbh. Just a few random thoughts. First, a computer bought for a child using what money? And with what conditions attached (eg what can it be used for at home, who replaces it if it breaks, how is it physically supplied in the first place?). Second, teachers' practice is scrutinised ALL the time. Not just by Ofsted, but by constant internal observation and data tracking. It's actually going to be much harder to scrutinise them when they're teaching remotely from home, I'd have thought. Third, the safeguarding issues are many and complicated (there are already reports of Zoom being hacked, for example; how you do ensure protection of teachers and pupils when video teaching potentially provides a window into their private lives?). Fourth, do you really not see any barriers to delivering effective live lessons remotely? How about for the teachers who have totally crap internet connections at home? Or those who are trying to look after a three or a nine year old because the nurseries and primaries are shut? How are they supposed to deliver live teaching all day from 9 to 4? I'm not saying that all these issues are insurmountable, given time and thought and money. But to imply that schools and teachers can just instantly pull their finger out and solve them is ludicrous.

@Grasspigeons - They have had a lot longer than 10 days. Everyone saw this coming.

If the independent schools can sort out a virtual learning platform in the same timeframe, I don’t see what excuse the state sector has. And how are they managing the safeguarding issues? The same way the state sector will have to, objections or not.

So much time is wasted in this country by public sector workers who just will not give or take an inch. It’s an absolute disgrace.

@peskipiksi - Please. If the government can afford to pay 80% of everyone’s wages for 3 months, they can afford to buy computers for the few kids who do not have them. I thought most schools already did this anyway.

Children of teachers can continue to attend nurseries, can’t they? And the older ones would be at their virtual school, same as everyone else.

I do agree with EYProvider, the lessons could be delivered from school who's wifi should be just fine. In other countries children are expected to arrive day one in secondary school with a working macbook. If the family can't afford one, one is provided means tested usually but even if they know the family is drinking away their money, it's still provided.
I've used the state system and private for mine and both have their faults but honestly i don't know what the state schools do all day.

Just giving kids a computer with internet access is a potential safety problem. In schools we monitor internet use very very closely.
Some of the phone related issues we see in school are horrible. Teachers are used to scrutiny, we are absolutely committed to doing the best for the kids in our care.

I’m a teacher-with a husband WFH and three kids. We have one laptop!

honestly i don't know what the state schools do all day.

We teach children.

Again that's where this country goes wrong, elsewhere the kids log onto the schools network as they walk in to register their attendance but also means whilst at school they cannot access any nasties easily.

@wonderstuff - If the private sector can find solutions to these issues, so can the state sector.

And they need to to it quickly, as in this week. These problems are all surmountable. It’s the no can do culture that is preventing them from being resolved.

@Appuskidu - Luckily, your kids will be able to continue to attend school and use the computers there.

Luckily, your kids will be able to continue to attend school and use the computers there.

Nope-because DH is WFH, they wouldn’t be allowed

@Appuskidu - See, this is what I mean. There’s never any solution with public sector workers, is there?

The entire sector needs to become more flexible. You are going to find that the patience of the private sector will start to wear thin very quickly.