The exit plan and schools.

[NeverGuessWho]

I know this whole thread will be hearsay, but I’m just interested in hearing people’s opinions of where schools are likely to fit in to the exit plan?

A friend thinks they will be opened early on, as this will free up more people to work, and hence enable furloughed workers to return to work. This will crucially save money.

IMHO, schools will be one of the last restrictions to be lifted. Once schools are opened, there will effectively be multiple mass gatherings in every town and city, all at the same time. Surely this will result in a surge of cases of the virus.

Unless of course, they pursue the antibodies/certified passport route?

What do people think?

I know, I know...

Tbf to Xenia, I do take her point that there are many many people in the vulnerable category working in close contact with other people, often without adequate PPE. This includes HCPs and social carers. A close relative of mine is a HCP working on a covid ward and is asthmatic. His manager just shrugged when he asked about the possibility of moving to a different ward. I also know of doctors, nurses, and care home staff who are asthmatic and/or in remission from cancer, in one case. All still working.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8209347/UK-live-restrictions-coronavirus-vaccine-developed-say-officials.html

MeadowHay - is that after having recieved a shielding letter? Thats terribly sad and morally wrong. These are dark days indeed.

Meadowhay, it’s not a race to the bottom. In Columbia, a much poorer place then the, every key worker has ppe.

Than the U.K.!

On that linke just above...."Ministers want to lift the most restrictive parts of the lockdown, including school and shop closures, in weeks".

Always vague ‘ministers’ no names, no quotes. They just spin for gullible clicks.

That’s up there with, ‘a spokesperson for the government says...’

Pointless and untraceable click bait.

Oh I absolutely agree and they should have PPE it's a disgrace! And teachers too if the science supports it. But some people feel their duty to their profession and patients means they work anyway even if they don't have the protection. I am not sure if I would make the same decision don't get me wrong but many are doing that. I only wanted to point it out because in other jobs when people talk about vulnerable staff and PPE it is always brought up again and again about e.g. Tesco Asda staff being at home on full pay as if all vulnerable workers are in that position. When in fact that's totally untrue especially in the public sector, especially in health and social care where many staff are working on the front line despite being in the vulnerable group. And the cancer one yes is in the shielding group, I assume they have made the decision to ignore it though as as far as I am aware NHS trusts are allowing people in the shielding group not to work. But not in the vulnerable group, as a general rule. And the proble is like people from schools have pointed out this is a large proportion of the workforce. The NHS and social care provision would not cope if all vulnerable staff were off work for the foreseeable. Of course PPE is important but enabling services to run effectively still relies on those in the vulnerable category still contining to work. It is an actual disgrace the lack of PPE availability though.

Out of interest, what do people think will be the advice for those in the shielding group going forwards though? Obviously if there's less CV going around their chances of catching it reduce, but they still exist, and their chances of dying after catching it stay the same as now, assuming NHS capacity for treatment. I can't see how those risks would ever decrease prior to vaccination and there is no evidence a vaccine will be available in 18 months as people keep saying. That's surely a best case scenario and it could easily be double that time. What will the advice be to these people?

Have really enjoyed this thread by the way and thank you to all the key workers mentioned who are still working in challenging conditions.

Hello again! I couldn’t resist coming back to see how the thread had progressed (the joys of lockdown) and my! 😗

@MeadowHay I think I know the answer to that one. The government doesn’t care about vulnerable people any more than they care about teachers or doctors. They are simply putting in measures to try to keep as many people from catching covid as possible so that the NHS doesn’t collapse.

Once we get to the point that the NHS has enough beds; oxygen; morgues; nightingale hospitals etc...we’ll ALL be back at work. The government is not going to permanently pay anyone’s wages. It’ll be ‘if you get sick now, we can deal with it’ (if you die, well that’s just bad luck).

Look at America. Trump will open America back up soon, no matter what and it’ll get their economy roaring again. We won’t want to be left behind.

People often ask on these boards what the new ‘normal’ will be. It’s going to be pretty much the same as before in my opinion. Obviously some lives will have been changed as people have loss family or lost jobs...but for the most part it’ll be a case of life goes on.

The ‘new normal’ part will be more frequently seeing someone die in our families; seeing a colleague die from time to time; having assemblies for pupils who have passed on. We’ll live with the more frequent pain of death. At least for a while.

@Xenia frustrates me so much because in her desire to get back to normal, this is what she is condemning us all to, where most people want to delay that as much as humanly possible. The thing is, once schools go back, social distancing really cannot exist.

Here’s an example. Little Johnny lives with his mum and dad and older sister Sharon. Little Johnny loves to cuddle his friends despite his teachers telling him off. Little Johnny catches covid.
Little Johnny’s father works in the Tesco warehouse. He’s been religiously social distancing. He wears a mask and gloves to work. He still catches covid from Johnny, taking it to work and spreading it before he even realised he has it.

Little Johnny’s mother is also very good at social distancing. She’s a carer in an old people’s home. She again transmits the virus there.

Johnny’s sister Sharon stays at her boyfriends house and her friends houses. She takes the virus there.

It doesn’t matter how careful the world is, once schools are open, it will spread again. The difference...well, we’ll have plenty (thousands) of hospital spaces.

Front page of Times today said vaccine trials going well and might even have one this year which is amazing. If there is a vaccine this year then we can delay our rush to ‘normal’ at least until kids, teachers, most vulnerable are protected. I thought we’d be looking at this time next year.

Teachers don't get flu vaccine. Wonder who would get this one?

Teachers don't get flu vaccine. Wonder who would get this one?

I had it this year at my school. Think the school sorted it out.

Those most useful to the economy? Or the most vulnerable (over 70s etc)

Might be for those who are needed most eg nhs, care, teachers?

Hopefully kids?!

I spoke to a teacher at my sons school the other day and they are trying to come up with a plan incase schools have to open.
He said that if my son was in school say a Monday and went out that night then he wouldnt be allowed back in school for 2 weeks. So it's like just school and home.

But I have 4 kids at 3 different school 1 being a pru and another a special school these both have children which have to travel a distance to school and its if the taxi drivers would want to can't do social distancing in a taxi.
My youngest has a rare genetic condition he hasn't received a letter but I have emailed the hospital to ask if he's at risk.
Problem is there is only 31 people known to have the same mutation of that gene in the world and they don't really know much about it yet.
But if he's at risk and I am trying to sheld him how can I with 3 other kids going to school.

Kim

Schools need to remain as they are as like pp said kids cant distance.
My 5yo just sneezed in the pasdling pool twice.
Possibly older kids could go in with masks.
But culturally the bad behaviour so trying to infect each other.

I think too the whole class take on the risks other parents decide on so they may be socialising or their parents may be.
I guess what we dont know from the uk is how many kids and parents did catch it from the kids in those 4w after half term.

Say on day1 of school a child is asymptomatic and gets ill 5 days later. Thats 30x4 (for just the family members. ). But some of those will be siblings in other classes and schools.

I think we all need to stop wishing lockdown ends soon because if we cease lockdown too early it will be even worse second time round. Please keep your children in youngest to die in today's figures was 11 years old with NO underlying conditions.

@sostenueto whilst this doesn’t make it any less of a tragedy, from what is in the news it sounds to me like the 11 year old did have an underlying condition.

Sky reported that ‘33 of them had no known underlying conditions they were aged between 29 and 94’

Age 29 with no underlying conditions also awful news.

He said that if my son was in school say a Monday and went out that night then he wouldnt be allowed back in school for 2 weeks.

How would that work though?

My DD gets the bus home from school with 50 people-from all different schools/going home from work/the shops etc etc

Surely that would count as being ‘out’?!

So every time she get the bus to or from school with other people, she needs to have 14 days off?!

My Dgd never had any underlying conditions until the day last year she caught an unknown virus which has left her permanently with a life threatening auto immune blood disorder for life! There are quite a few people dying of Covid after their immune systems go into overdrive causing complete organ failure trying to fight the virus. They too are being classed as underlying conditions.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-52183295

A very interesting article here.

I assume the 29 year old in the nurse from Morpeth.

Good BBC article -thanks for the link although it does not mention deaths caused by the lockdown nor the issue that if we lock down for too long we won't be able to afford to pay the salaries of nurses and teachers nor the furlough money.

I am not the only person would wants things open by 1 May although I can understand why mothers with small children who perhaps have not lose their jobs and nor have their husbands wanting a long lock down. Vast numbers of less vulnerable people whose lives have been ruined including the young and plenty of others who are not on mumsnet want the Swedish solution instead of the UK one.

@Xenia

It’s like you think teachers shut the schools and teachers are keeping the schools closed.

What’s your point? When the government deems it safe enough for life to go on, that’s when it’ll go on.

I’m sorry that you and others are having a bad time, but taking it out on one profession as if they single handedly have created all this, is not going to help things get back to normal any quicker.