Being 'vulnerable' does not make you part of the 'Shielded' group - if you're confused, see below

[Clymene]

At the start of the outbreak, many people were told they were in the vulnerable category. This includes people with asthma, pregnant women, the morbidly obese and people with MS and diabetes.

The full list is here: www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-guidance-on-social-distancing-and-for-vulnerable-people/guidance-on-social-distancing-for-everyone-in-the-uk-and-protecting-older-people-and-vulnerable-adults

These people should be very careful with social distancing, ideally for 12 weeks.

The shielded group are people who are extremely vulnerable. They have been identified by the NHS and should not leave the house. These are people with cancer, organ transplants, cystic fibrosis and other serious conditions. This is why they have been issued with food parcels by the government. A full list of these people is here:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-on-shielding-and-protecting-extremely-vulnerable-persons-from-covid-19/guidance-on-shielding-and-protecting-extremely-vulnerable-persons-from-covid-19

You cannot self-define as shielded. If you are vulnerable, take precautions. Use your local resources. But remember there are people who are much more vulnerable than you.

If you do not fall into either of these groups, please leave the resources to keep the vulnerable safe and well. Not only to protect them, but to protect all of us. Not to put too fine a point on it, but if the vulnerable clog up all the beds, there won't be any space for the outliers who randomly get very ill.

What is GCSF ClientQueen?

@goodbyestranger a bone marrow stimulant so it encourages my body to produce more neutrophils in the hope I will have more without killing them off. Vile side effects

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/cancer-in-general/treatment/cancer-drugs/drugs/g-csf

Poor you ClientQueen. Sounds horrible. Only asking because apparently I have what you have and that was the diagnosis after acute myeloid leukaemia was ruled out with a genetic sequencing thing. But I'm completely normal and fine and don't reckon I need even a tiny bit of shielding. Mine must be very mild compared to yours.

I had really low counts at diagnosis, around 0.3 but I had constant infections and they picked it up because I had night sweats. Ended up at haematology and they decided to actively treat me because under 0.5 classes as severe

So the frailty score, can someone clarify?

Cause as I see it, all disabled people who need some form of care will come under the increased score, whether they are "shielded" or not? This is a not a surprise if true, given the above issues with those who have severe (but not on exact meds) asthma being expected to carry on working while accepting treatment might be minimal?!

I'll admit I am confused by this. I got a letter from the nhs saying I am vulnerable and need to work from home. The word 'shielding' was not used so I think that puts me in the vulnerable not shielded category? I thought only those supposed to shield were supposed to get a letter from their hospital consultant. Seems there are several people just on this thread who should be shielded but have not had a letter. But i've had one to say i'm vulnerable? It is confusing.

It makes me cross when I see people bleating that they didn't receive a govt letter/text but they're vulnerable yada yada. I'm sure they are, but shielded is not a badge of honour nor some sort of special pass

I received the shielded text and was baffled and thought it was a scam. I discovered upon ringing up that I had a diagnosis that had yet to be communicated to me at an upcoming consultant's appointment.

So, yes, I do get a supermarket delivery slot, but I am also quite aware of the fact that I am toast when it comes to getting a ventilator as it is now officially medically documented.

So don't be quite so keen to demand that you get on "the list".

Alternatively, perhaps people know full well they are in the extremely vulnerable group regardless of receipt of a piece of paper, and are scared that they will have to do things that they know put them at risk, purely due to a clerical error?

shielded is not a badge of honour

People who have had/read the shielding advice will know this.

You can't even have a movie night with your own family and you have to eat meals in your bedroom. For 12 weeks. It's not something anyone's going to want to do for a laugh.

Exactly. It is not a position anyone would want to be in.

Where I live we got a letter and have received at least 10 texts, I assume this is to make sure that no one slips through the net if a letter doesn't arrive on your door mat.

I'm not sure whether those without mobile numbers would have had a phone call from the GP surgery instead of a text.

Do people here genuinely believe anyone on the shielding list will be refused a ventilator if it comes down to it?
So for me as a healthy 33yr old young mum, who lives a healthy normal life, who is currently undergoing chemotherapy for a brain tumour (said brain tumour causes me no issues in my daily life thank god), so I would be over looked if someone with no condition was there at the same time?
Do you believe my 12yr old DS will be refused a ventilator as he is shielding due to severe asthma?

The ironic thing is that is prior to 2015, if this had happened, I wouldn't have been on any list as I was a healthy young women. Before being diagnosed overnight with my tumour. That tumour had been growing slowly in my brain for 10 years (I was having symptoms then but overlooked them) so if this theory of not helping those on the shielding list is correct, at that point I would have been given one no question. What no one would have realised is that I had a massive tumour in my brain and would be dead by July 2015 if my DH didn't wake in the middle of the night, find me in the state I was in and get immediate help. The point is, anyone could have an undiagnosed condition, so the person next to me needing a ventilator at the same time as me, who isn't on the government list, may actually be medically in a worse place then me, albeit without knowing about it at that point.

It's a very disturbing thought to be honest with you.

Vdb, other than the asthmatics, none of those people you mentioned have a condition that puts them in the vulnerable group.

Aside from which, most of the people expected to go to work with asthma won’t be doing a highly skilled job with staff shortages.

Do people here genuinely believe anyone on the shielding list will be refused a ventilator if it comes down to it?

I think if there is a shortage of ventilators they will need to allocate them to those with the best prognosis, which will be decided on factors such as severity of illness, pre-existing conditions and age, where relevant. I don’t think it is as straightforward as shielding=no ventilator but obviously we are at higher risk of being denied one if there aren’t enough.

Aside from which, most of the people expected to go to work with asthma won’t be doing a highly skilled job with staff shortages.

???

Why wouldn’t people with asthma be doing a highly skilled job?

@IrmaFayLear I'm pointing out the lack of letter for a few reasons
People who don't get one and aren't aware they should be shielding
People who don't get one, can't get food and have no family/are more vulnerable anyway and die at home as they're maybe not internet savvy
People who don't get one, and nobody recognises they are vulnerable so they're not allowed a supermarket slot or any help
People who have got the letter in error and don't need to be shielding at all

I'm not demanding I "get on the list" because I have had my diagnosis for years, I'm quite aware what it is, I'm demanding my condition is recognised and asking why someone with the same condition, who is also a transplant patient hasn't been told they should be shielding
I mean I would hope with a mere neutropenia diagnosis age 32 that I wouldn't be automatically not given a ventilator

Do people here genuinely believe anyone on the shielding list will be refused a ventilator if it comes down to it?

Yes. The BMA have issued guidance to doctors on making these tough decisions. It's obviously only where resources are inadequate to be able to meet everyone's medical needs, but that's obviously the situation we're in with the ventilator shortage.

It is horrific, but IIRC, it even says disabled people can be discriminated against because under the Equality Act, choosing to ventilate someone healthier is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim (i.e. to save as many lives as possible with limited resources).

Really scary, but it's what happens when supplies are scarce.

Woah, isn’t it about likelihood of recovering and time taken to recover. I can’t see that having a brain tumour would change your likelihood of recovering, unless you are currently receiving some other medication.

As it takes a week in hospital to recover for me to recover from a chest infection, it would be realistic for doctors to say that there is a greater chance of me not surviving on a ventilator than someone with milder asthma.

Obviously this is all speculation.

Egghead, because most people, whether they are asthmatic or not, who are not currently working from home, are not doing highly skilled jobs.

Compared to a nurse on an acute ward, which takes 3 years to get a nursing degree, followed by further professional experience, most jobs requiring workplace attendance are not at that skill level.

@Nameofchanges - doctors, nurses, AHPs, pharmacists all not able to work from home.

So the frailty score, can someone clarify?

The guidance is this isnt to be used for under 65s. That said, any comorbidities and likelihood/speed of recovery will be taken into account whne resources are scarce.

Egghead, yes, but I said most, not all.

I am definitely in the shielding group - I have read the guidance. Now isn't the time to be bugging my dr over my lack of a letter (as yet) - phone calls averaging half hour just to get as far as a receptionist atm.

This is a common complaint. I'm on immunosuppressants and this week the hospital sent us all a text stating that it's become apparent that lots of patients have been overlooked for some reason. One confusion appears to be that GPs compiled the lists but some people are prescribed and receive their drugs from hospital so weren't included in the GP list.

To help this the hospital I'm under are going to monitor the patients they have identified themselves which is good but that doesn't allow patients to access any support for those on the "official" list and, from what I'm hearing, no-one knows how to add people on to these lists.

It's a shambles.

I ask because (ignoring my meds that mean I should shield already for a sec), in my early thirties if I were to be assessed under the frailty score, I'd score 5/6 depending on day - hence why I receive the higher rate of both types of PIP.

But (ignoring my personal circs now and talking generally), someone in a similar position would not be viewed as "shielded" and have to put themselves at risk of contracting the virus as they believe they are fine to social distance. However they are then in a position where - when it comes to it they could be judged on ability to survive (or possibly their frailty score, which was what I hoped to check) - they are a lower chance than someone perfectly healthy who develops the illness.

Does that make sense?

@goodbyestranger it's your history of infections which will determine if you are put on the shielding list or not.

FRAILTY SCORE IS NOT USED FOR UNDER 65S

It's in the guidance. It is also not used for people with certain disabilities. Stop getting worked up about it. It doesn't apply.