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Original poster

To think dying with Covid 19 is not the same as dying of Covid 19?

66 replies

Frage · 01/04/2020 18:34

My grandpa died with heart problems. However, they didn't kill him (he died of something else).

AIBU to think people should stop thinking that 'dying with' CV is the same as 'dying of' it?

OP posts:
TabbyMumz · 01/04/2020 19:09

I think if you die with covid, you are dying of it. Ie I think it would be doubtful if you have heart problems, and then you get covid...its the covid that is the final icing on the cake.

feelinguseless101 · 01/04/2020 19:10

Depends whether would have died at that point if they didn't have COVID19. Its possible they could leave lived much longer with whatever they had but the stress CV put on their bodies was too much.

Fantasiaa · 01/04/2020 19:11

A lot of the deaths will be of people who were very very sick or very very old and would have likely died soon after or even before they actually died.
They call the number of people who wouldn’t have died “ excess deaths”.

YANBU

Darbs76 · 01/04/2020 19:11

Well the point surely is ‘did you die earlier because you had Covid-19’? Yes some people had health issues, but many of these are mild conditions people live with. That’s the point you need to consider.

BalanchineBallet · 01/04/2020 19:12

I agree with you. It is NOT the same. Yes, the end result is the same awful sadness for the family but dying of is not the same as dying with.

Xylophonics · 01/04/2020 19:14

Agree and it's making the stats look much more scary than they need to.

Mistigri · 01/04/2020 19:15

Nice far right talking point you have here.

RandomLondoner · 01/04/2020 19:16

I think it takes about three weeks from infection to death for COVID-19 to kill you, if it does. I'd guess that the vast majority of other deaths in hospitals are caused by things that take longer to kill you. So in the vast majority of cases where a person has some other terminal condition, it's going to be the COVID-19 that finishes them off.

Original poster
Frage · 01/04/2020 19:17

I just wondered earlier, given that all the official statistics are based on people who have died "having tested positive for Covid 19". Which could, of course, mean that they died as a direct result of contracting the virus, but could also mean that they would have died anyway.

This also makes me wonder if this is the "reason" that CV is apparently particularly responsible for the deaths of older people. Are at least some of them people who would have died anyway?

People are surely still dying of things other than CV, even if they have tested positive? In the same way that many younger people who have tested positive have no symptoms at all...

OP posts:
Pollyputthepizzaon · 01/04/2020 19:18

I agree. It’s not the same and it’s skewing statistics. 100s of thousands of elderly die every year anyway so there is a huge overlap in those that die WITH COVID-19 and those who were going to die in 2020 anyway.

Original poster
Frage · 01/04/2020 19:19

Mistigri, our posts crossed.

Not quite sure where 'far right' comes into it. Confused I'm kind of centre left, generally. I just tend to question stuff. Why should CV be any different?

OP posts:
Helenshielding · 01/04/2020 19:20

100s of thousands of elderly die every year anyway so there is a huge overlap in those that die WITH COVID-19 and those who were going to die in 2020 anyway.

Here we go again.

BertiesLanding · 01/04/2020 19:20

There is the possibility that some of those who have died and had underlying conditions either had Covid-19 and recovered, or who carried it at death but were asymptomatic. So, yes, I agree.

MNHQ
KimMumsnet · 01/04/2020 19:23

Hi, all.
We're moving this to the Coronavirus topic now.
Thanks.

RandomLondoner · 01/04/2020 19:24

there is a huge overlap in those that die WITH COVID-19 and those who were going to die in 2020 anyway.

If someone dies of COVID-19 a month or six before they would have died of cancer, they've still died of COVID-19. They're not skewing the stats. Unless you're arguing we should just exclude anyone from the stats that we don't care about, those who would have died soon anyway, those older than us, those sicker than us. But the stats are for those people too, while they're still alive, so we don't.

bigchris · 01/04/2020 19:26

What does it matter ?

If it says covid or corona virus anywhere on the medical cause of death certificate it gets reported for statistics , whether it's the first cause of death or a contributing factor

Why try to play down the statistics? They are already played down as people are only tested in hospital so home deaths and care home deaths are being recorded as pneumonia, frailty of old age etc when they could have it , the statistics are far less than the true figure

Original poster
Frage · 01/04/2020 19:28

Thanks, Kim Mumsnet.

bigchris, it doesn't in fact matter. Yours is also a very good point. However, I'm just fed up with the hysteria (and with the resultant bankruptcy which I now face).

OP posts:
EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 01/04/2020 19:31

People are dying in their thousands from pneumonia and organ failure that has been bought on by COVID-19

The virus attacks the respiratory system that can lead to pneumonia and organ failure and that is what what people are dying from

esjee · 01/04/2020 19:33

@Frage well i don't see how assuming it's fine cos they probably would have died anyway (newsflash: they probably wouldn't have, at least not today or this week or this month or, for some of them, even this decade) helps, but you do you.

Helenshielding · 01/04/2020 19:34

However, I'm just fed up with the hysteria (and with the resultant bankruptcy which I now face).

Hysteria?! Are you looking at France, italy and spain?

Butterfield8 · 01/04/2020 19:35

Yesterday’s information from Italy. A breakdown of the percentage of deaths by age group and gender. Here, all deaths of people who test positive for the virus are marked as Covid 19 deaths.

To think dying with Covid 19 is not the same as dying of Covid 19?
bigchris · 01/04/2020 19:35

It's not hysteria , but I'm sorry you're facing bankcruptcy, the government is doing so much to help people financially, I'm not sure what else they can tell
It'll take years for the country to recover

Mittens030869 · 01/04/2020 19:36

If you watch the news even occasionally, you can see the damage this virus is causing. HCPs are dying without the necessary equipment and younger people with no apparent health problems are too. If these measures had not been taken, the NHS would be overwhelmed by all the COVID patients needing hospital treatment.

NerrSnerr · 01/04/2020 19:36

If someone dies of COVID-19 a month or six before they would have died of cancer, they've still died of COVID-19. They're not skewing the stats.*

It's really not that difficult to understand.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 01/04/2020 19:39

Hysteria how stupid

The death is awful most can not have their loved ones with them. Their funerals families can not be together. A third of the world is on lock down. Medics have while trying their hardest to save people’s lives are catching this terrible virus and dying themselves