Should the Government be handing out free doses of Vitamin D NOW?

[LWJ70]

I have recently discovered (from reading very new scientific abstracts) that low Vit D levels leave us more prone to respiratory tract viruses. Most people only associate it with a healthy skeleton. After a long, cold winter, millions of us could be slightly deficient. Our most vulnerable section of society is unable to make use of the sunlight, which is beneficial.Could this explain the greatly differing pathways of coronavirus throughout the globe? Read these abstracts:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30675873
clinmedjournals.org/article...ases-and-epidemiology-jide-3-030.php?jid=jide

Difficult to decipher the abstract's stats without looking at the full paper. It is a summary from 25 previous studies with a grand total of 11,321 participants. It is published by US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health with a big participation from the Centre for Primary Care and Public Health, Barts and The London School of Medicine and Dentistry, Queen Mary University of London.

One thing is clear though:

''Vitamin D supplementation was safe, and it protected against ARIs overall. Very deficient individuals ................... experienced the benefit.

(ARI = acute respiratory infections)

I am amazed why this info is not being published in the wider public domain. Instead we have celebrity workouts, toilet rolls and memes.

Elderly people in sunny climates are probably not aware that they have afforded themselves a greater fighting chance to survive coronavirus.

There are 5.4 million people in the UK above the age of 75 years. The majority of them are locked in their houses (or they would prefer to be). If they leave their houses to buy vitamin supplements from a pharmacist, they could be exposed to the coronavirus. This is not far-fetched- a coronavirus can survive nine days or more on plastic/metal surfaces. Many parts of the UK are at a perfect temperature now for viral stability. If two thirds of infected people are asymptomatic, the infection is already everywhere.

My point is, why doesn't the NHS select the most vulnerable and make a mass delivery of Vit D or a broad spectrum of supplements?

Agreed @fluffiphlox. But in macro terms i mean making a generational shift, starting young. Primary school and onwards, no opting out of “home ec”, it’s a vital life skill.

@NunchukNinja

Thanks for the kind words! We all need to look after one another and sound scientific research and medicine are what's going to lead us out of this mess.

I'm not an expert on dosage, but the NHS website recommends 10mcg so could you could double it easily.

Regarding the proof of covid 19 patients blood serum levels, it's obvious that Public Health England have already got some data. Any results announcement would have global implications. I think they are still gathering data in order to make their conclusions statistically significant - there's a lot riding on it.

All I can say is that I have read a few tweets coming from frontline US doctors and they have reported low vit D blood serum levels in most covid 19 ICU patients. Of course that's not enough, you also need to test shed loads of asymptomatic/mild cases.

@NunchukNinja totally agree. By far the most useful things I learnt at school we’re in home ec and textiles. Those life skills are priceless.
I did go on to get 10 GCSEs, 4 A levels, an under grad and a post grad degree which were useful in career terms but there really is no substitute for knowing how to cook and mend. I now grow my own veggies and compost too. I wish schools weren’t under so much academic pressure these days because useful skills have fallen by the wayside. But we digress from the original topic!

Thank you, @Itsjustmee - I've had gallbladder surgery and have recently developed symptoms of what could well be vitamin B12 deficiency, but I never made the link - I had no idea my lack of gallbladder could affect my ability to absorb vitamins. I'm also very pale and always either cover up in the sun or wear SPF 50, so there's a good chance I'm vitamin D deficient too. Will certainly be looking into supplements etc now!

There is a link between vitamin b12 deficiency and low levels of vitamin d.

I am on lifelong six weekly b12 injections for pernicious anaemia (which isn’t the same as b12 deficiency).

My doctor phoned me yesterday to advise that my essential injections would be stopped until this is over.

I ordered sublingual b12 and vitamin d from Solgar today but do think that the government need to recognise that not everyone can afford to do that. I won’t be able to function/work if my b12 becomes too low.

The pernicious anaemia society are lobbying government but I doubt anything will change and I do understand that medical staff need to limit their risk but it could get tough for people.

How much vitamin D is too much? I'm looking at trying to get some sprays for myself and the DC's but aside from a standard multivitamin for the kids I've never really taken any vitamins before (aside from my B12 injections done at the GP) so feel a bit out of my depth.

My B12 injections have also been stopped

bee it’s best to test using finger prick tests. I take 5,000 IU all winter and stop in the summer and gets lots of sun. I am much more conservative with my kids - 400 iu and stop in summer. I am obsessed with getting them sensible levels of sun!

The other pointer of interest are the relatively low death rates in the Scandinavian countries. They make up for their lack of sunlight there with a heck of a lot of oily herring.

I take vitamin C and vitamin D with K2 every day since I had a vitamin D deficiency 6 years ago where I thought I was seriously ill. I swear both are essential for keeping me healthy and at the start of the outbreak I made sure my sister and niece, who both work in a hospital, had Vitamin D to take.

I have seen the prices on Amazon double for Vit D but I have been able to buy direct from the manufacturer at no inflated cost but that was a few weeks ago now.

PowerslidePanda
Your welcome . It’s well known that stomach surgery like gastric sleave and gallstone can mean you can no longer absorb vitamins tablets so you need liquid type . But a lot of people don’t realise this and the importance of it .
You can get lots of liquid sprays on Amazon I have mine a monthly recurring order

@Massivejugs and for anyone who’s B12 has been stopped If your not squeamish you can self inject B12
I get mine from a pharmacist in Germany and do it myself ( watched a few you tube videos 😂) I ordered the syringes and needles and a sharp box to dispose of them. I think I bought about 50 vials plus the syringes and needles and it cost less then £50
It’s only £7.50 for 10 vials so it’s worth buying a few boxes as the the P & P is the same amount for however many boxes you by

These are the ones I get
www.mycare.de/en/online-kaufen/b12-depot-rotexmedica-ampullen-3862297

I’d like to give a shout out to vitamin C here too. I know quite a few have mentioned its importance. It’s so important for immunity. And as is becoming clear, your immune system is rather important!
I believe China have been experimenting on Covid patients with IV Vit C. Does anyone know anything about this?

I've been waiting for a published study of blood serum levels of vit D3 versus patient outcome and the first one that I have seen is on the net and the results show a significant correlation. Bear in mind it is not peer reviewed and does not prove causality. But I will continue with this until science proves me wrong.

The study was done by a researcher called Alipio from the Philippines. He took the data from 212 covid patients and ranked their symptoms: mild, ordinary, severe, critical.

He statistically analysed the categories and blood serum levels: normal was defined as vitamin D3 less than 30ng/ml, insufficient was in the range 21–29ng/ml and deficient as less than 20ng/ml.

Here are his results:
mild symptoms = 86% had normal levels of D3, 1.3 % had insufficient levels of D3
ordinary symptom = 26% deficient, 44% insufficient
severe = 40% deficient, 29% insufficient
critical = 32% deficient, 26% insufficient, 3.6% normal

OK I hear you say, it could be because those patients already had underlying conditions which rendered them deficient in the first place. But this is significant data.

Study is here:
papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3571484

Two things really stand out for me. This is a study of 212 Philippines nationals living in SE Asia. This is one of the BAME communities who have sadly disproportionatly died of covid in the UK:
www.theguardian.com/world/2...exerts-heavy-toll-on-filipino-community-in-uk

Meanwhile, there have been only 446 deaths in the Philippines, with a population of 110 million (they had their first case of covid on 30th January!).

Secondly, the UK government has said that they will keep all the scientific data secret until after the pandemic -

'Key scientific data and advice the UK government is using to guide its covid-19 response won’t be published until the pandemic ends. Documents used to make decisions and the minutes of meetings of the Scientific Advisory Group on Emergencies (SAGE) will only be made public when the current outbreak is brought under control, according to Patrick Vallance, the government’s chief scientific adviser.''

www.newscientist.com/articl...advice-wont-be-published-until-pandemic-ends/

Keep going LWJ. I’m with you. I was appalled the dietician for PHE didn’t say more on this.

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow

YESTERDAY, the NHS has finally changed its vit D website after 10 years only talking about bones and rickets:

''Coronavirus update
There have been some news reports about vitamin D reducing the risk of coronavirus. However, there is no evidence that this is the case.''

www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-d/

Also all the newspapers and the BBC ran verbatim the same news article recommending we take supplements.

Coincidence??????????????

I'm glad PHE is finally advising people to take vitamin D, but I don't know why they're citing people being indoors more as the reason. People who ignore the advice about taking vitamin D in winter will ignore this too. If they actually said, "Early indications suggest a link between vitamin D deficiency and more severe cases of coronavirus", people would actually sit up and take note. I appreciate the link is still being proven, but the wording could take that into account.

That’s the issue with the NHS. It takes two decades to decide the evidence is enough to suggest change. Which for something as cheap as vitamin D or as different as low carb diets for T2D is far too long

Bump

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow Good point!

THE EVIDENCE IS NOW OVERWHELMING

YOU CANNOT IGNORE THE DATA

PUBLIC HEALTH ENGLAND
SAGE
NHS
DOMINIC CUMMINGS

THERE IS STILL TIME TO ACT
THOUSAND OF VULNERABLE/BAME LIVES CAN STILL BE SAVED BY MASS ADMINISTERING VITAMIN D NOW

UK IS NOW THE THIRD WORST IN DEATHS PER MILLION (UNDER FRANCE, ITALY, SPAIN)

DOING NOTHING = CULPABLE HOMICIDE

THE EVIDENCE IS NOW OVERWHELMING

1.First covid 19 blood serum data published in the world.
Clinical study by Philippine Mark Alipio. He took the data from 212 covid patients and ranked their symptoms: mild, ordinary, severe, critical.
Here are his results (see attached):
mild symptoms = 86% had normal levels of D3, 1.3 % had insufficient levels of D3
ordinary symptom = 26% deficient, 44% insufficient
severe = 40% deficient, 29% insufficient
critical = 32% deficient, 26% insufficient, 3% normal

OK I hear you say, it could be because those patients already had underlying conditions which rendered them deficient in the first place. But this is significant data.

Study is here:
papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3571484

Two things really stand out for me. This is a study of 212 Philippines nationals living in SE Asia. This is one of the BAME communities who have sadly disproportionately died of covid in the UK:

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/17/coronavirus-exerts-heavy-toll-on-filipino-community-in-uk

2.Liverpool University Study - see attached graph
'When mortality per million is plotted against latitude it can be seen that all countries that lie below 35 degrees North have relatively low mortality. Thirty-five degrees North also happens tobe the latitude above which people do not receive sufficient sunlight to retain adequate vitamin D levels during winter. This suggests a possible role for vitamin D in determining outcomes from COVID-19. There are outliers of course – mortality is relatively low in Nordic countries – but their vitamin D deficiency is relatively uncommon, probably due to widespread use of supplements.'

1. Recent call from three UK based NHS scientific and clinical researchers for hospitals to urgently analyse serum D3 levels from covid 19 patients:

www.dropbox.com/s/ka7h4fbi7xdz9s9/Covid-19 and Vitamin D Information.pdf?dl=0

Masses of evidence.

Hundreds, literally hundreds of clinical, peer reviewed scientific and medical papers that show clear evidence of vitamin D3 suppressing the worst symptoms of viral respiratory diseases :

-vitamin D3 suppresses cytokine storms

• Vitamin D3 prevents hypoxia

-One of vitamin D3's role in the immune system relates to ACE2. ACE2 enzyme supresses cytokine storms and Vit D3 goes to the receptor gene and activates ACE2 production. If there's not enough vit D3 patient continues with acute respiratory distress syndrome. -vitamin D3 is a key hormone (yes hormone!) in the immune system -studies on previous coronaviruses have shown ACE2 receptor is on the X chromosome , covid has much higher male mortality , males have XY, females XX.

VERY, VERY small sample of recent, peer reviewed proven clinical studies/research papers:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4488782/
clinmedjournals.org/articles/jide/journal-of-infectious-diseases-and-epidemiology-jide-3-030.php?jid=jide
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4376709/
ec.bioscientifica.com/view/journals/ec/7/12/EC-18-0184.xml
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3756814/
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5340372/
imj.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Optimisation-of-Vitamin-D-Status-for-Enhanced-Immuno-protection-Against-Covid-19.pdf
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30675873

Meanwhile, this statement has been added to the NHS web page on vitamin D three days ago:

There have been some news reports about vitamin D reducing the risk of coronavirus. However, there is no evidence that this is the case.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-and-minerals/vitamin-d/

I haven't read the whole thread, but it was on Sky News yesterday, about the army who are helping on the front line now being advised to take Vitamin D. They are also being told to use a special spray insect repellent (mosquitos), as a screen. The news report was interesting, and I'm sure it will be reported again. Just in case you were unaware (but you probably have discussed this, so ignore me if you want to!).
I take it by the way, buy it from Lidl. I eat really healthily too and get plenty of sunshine.

THE EVIDENCE IS NOW OVERWHELMING

YOU CANNOT IGNORE THE DATA

PUBLIC HEALTH ENGLAND
SAGE
NHS
DOMINIC CUMMINGS

THERE IS STILL TIME TO ACT
THOUSANDS OF VULNERABLE/BAME LIVES CAN STILL BE SAVED BY MASS ADMINISTERING VITAMIN D NOW

UK IS NOW IN THE TOP FEW COUNTRIES WITH THE HIGHEST DEATHS PER MILLION

DOING NOTHING = CULPABLE HOMICIDE

Please, please, don’t assume that if you spend lots of time in the sun and eat the right sorts of food, your vitamin D levels will be fine.

I read quite a lot about Vit D when I was diagnosed with Triple Negative Breast Cancer 3.5 years ago. This is a less common breast cancer with a higher death rate, which is more common in younger women and BAME women. I fall into neither of those categories.

There is quite a lot of info out there about a connection between TNBC and low levels of Vit D. (This is strengthened by the current association between high levels of death within the BAME communities and low Vit D levels). I had to really push my oncologist to test my Vit D and it was extremely low. I am a keen gardener and I walk the dog, so I’m outside a lot. I also have a dog to walk. My diet includes all of the foods which allegedly increase vitamin D levels.

Anyway, my chances of not making it to 5 years were much higher than I would have liked - but I’m still here and keeping my Vit D levels up is, I believe, helping me to stay well.

A friend going through the same treatment and my teenage daughter were also tested and found to be vitamin D deficient.

There was a lady who, a few years ago, posted a great deal of info about Vit D deficiency which indicated a link to all sorts of illnesses and conditions. I cannot understand why this isn’t given much more focus by medics.

PS sorry if I’ve already posted thus on this thread. I do occasionally post about this and I haven’t read the entire thread. In any event - it us worth repeating!

Thank you for this thread