Police are pulling over loads of cars in my local town

[VivaLeBeaver]

Stopping people and asking them where they’re going, is it essential, etc. Glad they’re taking it seriously.

And not local to me, but saw this “ticket” on fb. So police saying you can’t drive somewhere to exercise. I know that was being discussed earlier.

"Anyone with half a brain would appeal the fine and they’d win."

After this emergency, I doubt if there will be the resources or the interest to review fines of people the police claim were not following the rules

and I'm sure if you argue with the police at the time, they'll find a more serious charge that will stick

"it’s quite extraordinary that people are praising the police for making it up as they go along and enforcing fictitious laws."

I'm not praising them for it
I just accept the reality that arguing with the police is rarely fruitful and usually gets people into worse trouble

all this emergency legislation will remain in place once this is over,

forgive me if I don't buy into your conspiracy theory.
The legislation is time limited and has ot go back to the house of commons to be extended. I think the limit was september, but not sure.

so no, they won't remain in place, and as MANY journalists etc were on the ball in terms of accountability, and how that was going to happen if the house didn't meet, I really don't think we are in trouble with that.

did any of you read this post, because I find it striking that the argument just went on without a pause.

Consider this. I have lung cancer, I have to stay in for 12 weeks. With my 3 children. I consider it lucky I can go in the garden. Forgive me if my heart doesn't bleed for you people denied the opportunity to waste police time by driving egregiously to places you'd rather walk than the place you live.
I'm worrying about what will happen if my GP husband dies, as my life is going to be short. Or if I get it (certain painful death) and my thoughts are with the people with lung diseases who don't have outside space and are stuck in quarantine for 12 weeks.
Stop being a dick and stay home.

so sorry EmperorBallpitine that you are dealing with this.
you are right, we shoudl stop squabbling, and we shoudl go above and beyond the letter of the law where ever we possibly can.

"What I find amazing is how clever this little virus is. It knows not to infect you when you’re doing your food shopping or at work, and yet if you stand in the middle of an empty field it will come and find you"

Work and shopping for food is essential, exercise is recommended,
driving for that exercise is neither

I can see what the police are getting at, but also see that driving to somewhere deserted seems reasonable too

Anyway, if this lockdown doesn't end after 3 weeks, the govt may tighten up the laws to remove loopholes or grey areas

In Germany we've had a series of additions like that, mainly coming at the request of police / public health to make the rules clearer & easier to enforce

e.g. recently (Germany):

"When meeting other people, a minimum distance of 1.5 meters must be maintained.

Public behavior that is likely to jeopardize the distance requirement of sentence 2, such as partying, barbecuing or picnicking, is prohibited regardless of the number of people"

The legislation has to be renewed after 6 months, or it lapses

The Opposition lobbied to reduce the original 2 years - I'd have preferred 3 months renewable, but 6 months is acceptable, imo.

So sorry you are going through all that, EmperorBallpitine 💐
You have put this into perspective

I just accept the reality that arguing with the police is rarely fruitful and usually gets people into worse trouble

That comment genuinely sends a chill down my spine.

I think my point was more that the precedent has been set (I mean in a general sense, I do understand that the doctrine of precedent doesn't apply to legislation)

Thing is this virus won't infect you in an empty field. It will however (or may) infect you in that field if many other people are going there too.

...or in the big car park where everyone parks to get into said field.

Just seen a policeman on Channel 4 news tell a driver they shouldnt be driving somewhere to excersise.

Which goes against what the Cabinet Office spokesperson said upthread.

This is far from clear cut - so many different interpretations.

My parents are both in shielding group - cancer and are on chemo.

If I was stopped I'd just tell police I'm delivering their food (which is left on front door step).

I'm sure they could text the letter etc to me to prove it.

My HT has written all staff a letter to say we are keyworker and travelling because government has asked all schools are kept open.

That comment genuinely sends a chill down my spine.

Mine too. It's a very close relation to the old chestnut 'If you've got nothing to hide why would you object to more surveillance?'

did any of you read this post, because I find it striking that the argument just went on without a pause

Consider this. I have lung cancer, I have to stay in for 12 weeks. With my 3 children. I consider it lucky I can go in the garden. Forgive me if my heart doesn't bleed for you people denied the opportunity to waste police time by driving egregiously to places you'd rather walk than the place you live

I am a doctor myself, I am absolutely in favour of social distancing to protect people with serious illnesses,. In fact, the whole reason I want to drive a short distance to walk is to socially distance myself from my vulnerable neighbours.

If anyone can give me a single valid reason why it would make my neighbours safer for me to walk in the village, than to drive 1 mile up the road so I'm further away from them, I will stop. So far, I haven't seen one. The 'ties up the emergency services' argument is bogus because short car journeys are phenomenally safe. 34 cyclists and 34 pedestrians are killed for every billion miles travelled in the UK. The number of car occupants killed = 2. So, it is 17 times more dangerous for me to walk 1 mile up the road to get to a field to exercise than to drive.

This is a very dangerous attitude and it is exactly how authoritarian regimes take hold.

Human rights and civil liberties are the concern of everyone- not just criminals!

This is how the Nazis came to power- by demonising and 'othering' sections of society and telling people they had nothing to be concerned about as these people didn't deserve rights.

I just find it quite extraordinary that the police cannot attend burglaries or robberies but now seemingly have the resources to monitor where people are walking.

@StormyClouds, I couldn't agree more. Can't work out who is merely naive and who is genuinely authoritarian or a would-be coppers' nark.

That being said, people are seemingly being very stupid. However, I for one do not want Plod becoming the arbiter of whether or not my shopping was necessary. Are they going to come in and audit the fridge or freezer before making a considered judgment on that?

(also not a criminal, just a Thought Criminal)

Anyway, if this lockdown doesn't end after 3 weeks, the govt may tighten up the laws to remove loopholes or grey areas

Don't laws always have loopholes and grey areas? That's why they require interpretation by experts in the law.

I couldn't agree more. Can't work out who is merely naive and who is genuinely authoritarian or a would-be coppers' nark.

Or just not paranoid about the police just doing their job because people are behaving like selfish arseholes?

@woodchuck99 agreed. I watched the drone footage and wondered why the attempt to shame. They were all so far apart. Even the cars in the carpark weren't so close.

Last time I sat in my small suburban garden, I didn't get much of an aerobic workout.

You can do an aerobic workout on a mat the size of a bath towel.

However many people who are going out are going to sit on benches at the park, they're not jogging...

Mrs Noah, I agree, but in these kinds of situations all kinds of weird interpretations of rules come to the fore. In some ways it reminds me of what my parents said about blackout in WWII (having to have black curtains etc over your windows at night in case bombers from Germany above saw lights on and dropped the bomb there (very sensible rule) but then you get over zealous neighbours or policemen taking unreasonable decisions.

I was happier to hear when one of my daughters did her walk in the City of London where she lives yesterday there were lots of police and I suspect they were out and about because of all the empty financial services companies which I presume are prime targets for burglars as they are mostly empty now. There are also more people walking home or cycling home from work (work they are allowed by law to do) those who can avoid the tube - not everyone can avoid the tube and as I think the NHS is the 4th largest employer on the planet, then we add in policemen, postmen, justice system workers and many others no wonder the tubes are packed but Khan seems to be in a stand off with the PM refusing to put the number of tubes back to a more reasonable number at rush hour.

Mrs Noah I totally agree. That drone footage was awful, ditto PP’s triumphant slot on the news.

You can’t help thinking PP, some police forces and MNers have died and gone to heaven with this. All logic out the window, over zealous interpretation of rules with a clear enjoyment of supposed law enforcement when there are no actual laws that driving 2 mins for a safer walk break.

Gator no some people are doing a walk for a mile or 2.The last thing that is needed is people who don’t know what they’re doing trying aerobics. I couldn’t do half the JW workout due to back issues, was doing it with colleagues and half of us over a certain age were worried about not getting back up and causing further back injuries. Came home and did my long 2 mile walk with ds. Far healthier, worked out more, got vit D and brain decluttering. Lanes were busy would have been safer driving a short distance to one of the many other options we have in our area.

I think sadly some officers will use it to be bullies.

I went to my local shop yesterday morning to get some milk, literally as we had none in the house. Shop is a 5 minute walk round the corner.
On way back DP called and said have you left the shop yet and I said yeah. He had wanted bacon but I said I wasn't going back. As I put the phone in my pocket, a police car had been driving along, they slowed and one of them shouted at me out the window.
He demanded to know why I was out, so I lifted the bag with the milk up and said "I was buying milk".
He was really aggressive! Questioning was it necessary and telling me he could fine me if he wanted soon
I'm quite emotional at the moment down to this as my anxiety is ridiculous. I stayed polite and pointed out I live just up there, it's no more than 5 minutes, we are allowed to go for a walk alone, and I timed it to do two things at once. I said I understood the rules but felt shouting aggressively at a woman was completely out of order, and if he carried on round the corner, there was a group of teens outside the take away he was best placed to threaten.
He then asked why was I on the phone and I said look, my partner wanted bacon, I told him no, and I would be home by now but you're preventing me.
He then said he was going to be keeping a look out for me as I'm such a smart arse, and if he saw me again I was being fined.
I walked home in tears.
I get they are doing a good thing but officers like that, that are no doubt arseholes anyway, are going to love the excuse.