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Sensible thread for self-employed people

247 replies

Bflatmajorsharp · 23/03/2020 16:57

Could we have one please?

You know, where we don't have to continually confirm that yes we pay the same taxes as employed people, yes we pay slightly less NI but don't have access to SSP or pension contributions, yes the HMRC does know what we earn as we submit a tax return each year.

It's really struck me this weekend that offering no financial support to the 5million SE/gig workers is a public health issue.

People are still going to work because they can't afford not to. Some London tubes were packed today with people who cannot social distance, not because their jobs are vital but because they cannot afford not to work.

I hope that the govt address this sharpish. It's so dangerous.

OP posts:
ArriettyJones · 27/03/2020 19:31

Does anyone know if we claim UC from now until June to keep us going until this payment comes, will we then have to pay the UC back?

No, I’m fairly certain DWP will just treat the HMRC payment as income from the point you receive it.

That would be in line with how they generally treat income & to do otherwise would put clients straight back into financial hardship.

yoloPenguinsEatfish · 27/03/2020 20:43

adiposegirl among the reasons I havent earned much from SE over the last 3 years include: caring for my DM during and up to her death; DH being diagnosed with cancer. Forgive me for not prioritising my business over my family.

£50k a year?? I earned that ONCE in 20 years of SE. You have an unrealistic view of what people can earn, given that I believe the average income is £25k a year.

Bflatmajorsharp · 27/03/2020 21:26

yoloPenguinsEatfish I'm sorry to hear about your family curcumstances.

There isn't a minimum amount of SE earnings to qualify, I don't think? You will hopefully be entitled to some help.

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yoloPenguinsEatfish · 27/03/2020 21:44

thank you Bflat I may have over reacted there! I just hate the whole assumption that being SE is easy/a tax dodge/insert whatever reason anyone chooses Smile

tigerbear · 27/03/2020 21:44

Thank you @Bflatmajorsharp, I’m going to check with my accountant tomorrow .

@adiposegirl2 cash to tide me over?
Where is that coming from then?
The savings my business partner and I have in our accounts is to pay VAT, corporation tax, personal tax. None of these things are going to go away, many of these things are simply deferred, not wiped out altogether.
Same with mortgage holidays, it still all needs paying back at some point.

So this ‘cash to tide me over’ isn’t going to go far, considering DP and I have both gone down to 0 earnings.

adiposegirl2 · 28/03/2020 02:37

yoloPenguinsEatfish*
Based on your post: if you were the carer for family you'd be better off on benefits assuming you are not already in receipt of welfare as well as being SE.
I believe some SE have been unrealistic on here in how they are actually supporting themselves.financially.

Again if your average 3 year tax return is low, youd be most probably fare better financially on benefits

tigerbear
Going off your post: you pay corporation tax although you are SE? Really?? Again if you have no money how have you both been supporting yourselves till now? As you claim to pay CT which you have I think you have 6-9 months in which to pay it? I believe a way round that is to pay yourselves a salary which you must do as you said you pay personal tax which must be a salary above the personal tax allowance.
The government is helping you when they don't need to and I say that as someone who 1. has been SE for 8 years 2. Currently 4 months new start up ltd company.
Yes I've gone the Universal credit route

As I said before the government are supporting with rent mortgage council tax payments.

I'm sure you have credit facilities and savings.

Just get on we all have to and pray you make it out alive on the other side.

The dead can't pay Bill's but the living can pay off their debts.

tigerbear · 28/03/2020 07:34

@adiposegirl2
Yes, I pay corporation tax as it’s a limited company.
You’re right, we have been absolutely fine until now, we’ve been able to pay ourselves well, and have been making a profit.
However I’m just saying that due to the following things, we won’t have money for long as:

  • DP won’t have any money coming in either for the foreseeable (he’s a handy man so won’t be able to work in other people’s houses) and been trading less than a year so not entitled to any help. He has savings of a few thousand, maybe enough to live off for 2-3 months, but once that’s gone, I’ll have to pay all of the mortgage, bills, food etc. Therefore the money I do have won’t go that far.
  • we’ve spent most of our savings on our wedding, which now won’t happen (planned for July). The venue won’t give a refund, only allowed to postpone. So although we’ve already paid about 50%, we still have the remainder to pay on this, so will still have to put money aside for this, approx £5k
  • we could have no work for what, 6 months to a year? I can’t see the money I have stretching to cover that amount of time tbh

I might be wrong about all of this, I hope so, I’ll be checking with the accountant today.

Bimbleberries · 28/03/2020 19:43

Someone on another thread said they'd had some sort of email from HMRC about this.

I haven't. Has anyone else? I don't know if the email was genuine. I'm presuming they will write to tell us we can apply, and not for quite some time really.

Bflatmajorsharp · 28/03/2020 19:48

I received this on Thursday evening from HMRC -

Dear customer,

The Chancellor, this evening, announced a new Self-employment Income Support Scheme to support self-employed people who have been adversely affected by COVID-19.

GOV.UK has further details about who is eligible for the scheme and how it will work.

Self-employed people do not need to get in touch with HMRC as the scheme isn’t yet open for applications. HMRC will contact eligible customers by the beginning of June, inviting them to apply.

Unfortunately, we are aware of an increase in scam emails, calls and texts. If someone gets in touch claiming to be from HMRC, saying that financial help can be claimed or that a tax refund is owed, and asks you to click on a link or to give information such as your name, credit card or bank details, please do not respond.

HMRC will never contact you out of the blue to ask for these details.

The government has also introduced the following help for the self-employed:

Deferral of Self Assessment Income Tax payments due in July 2020 and VAT payments due from 20 March 2020 until 30 June 2020
Grants for businesses that pay little or no business rates
Increased amounts of Universal Credit
Business Interruption Loan Scheme
Directors of their own company paid through PAYE, may be able to get support using the Job Retention Scheme.
We will continue to share the most up to date information directly with you as it becomes available.

Yours sincerely

OP posts:
yoloPenguinsEatfish · 28/03/2020 21:20

yes, I also got that email bflat. Have had helpful msgs from my accountant too - basically saying there is hope and being kind.

I am in the 'fortunate' position that I have savings because DM died and therefore I had an inheritance. Buggered if that means all my inheritance goes on living costs though. We are lucky, we will survive. But so many others wont, and that makes my heart ache.

I hate the whole "SE people are tax dodgers/doing it for pin money/whatever".

adipose I didnt qualify for carers, or UC as I made just enough to help keep us afloat. Do you actually know what CA is - because it's fucking peanuts.

minniemooblue · 28/03/2020 21:30

My husband hasn't received the email. I'm worrying now because for last years tax return he earned £56k but the 2 previous years were lower making his average 3 years earnings under £50k. But if they just look at last years it will be over the £50k limit.

Bimbleberries · 28/03/2020 21:46

well I've definitely never made over £50K, and I've not had the email either, so I wouldn't worry yet.

I can't see how they'd have my phone number from my tax return either - all they should have is my email. So maybe they're just sending it to those whose mobile numbers they have, to make sure nobody responds to any scams.

yoloPenguinsEatfish · 28/03/2020 21:57

Mine came to my actual email address, but I'm pretty early on in the alphabet for both my first and surname, maybe that makes a diff?

Bimbleberries · 28/03/2020 22:14

oh maybe, I'm much later on

Bflatmajorsharp · 29/03/2020 16:35

I occurred to me just now... I must have ticked some box about receiving random emails from the HMRC at some point. I get one every month or so offering 'advice with self-assessment' etc.

I wonder if the first batch of emails they sent out were from this distribution list?

OP posts:
PinkSparklyPussyCat · 29/03/2020 16:42

If you have not earned much you were not gainful SE in the first place claim UC if you have earned over £50k you were gainfully SE.

What? So if you don't earn 'much' (whatever that is) you're not gainfully employed. I'll tell my DH that he's clearly not been working hard enough at his manual job despite his back and leg issues.

yoloPenguinsEatfish · 29/03/2020 19:38

Surely better to have earned £10k, £15k, £20k than not to have earned at all? Not everyone has access to a PAYE job for whatever reason.

Doilooklikeatourist · 30/03/2020 09:24

Just had the letter saying we’ll have the £10k business grant , we only applied last Wednesday 👍

NeverWrong · 30/03/2020 15:03

I have not read the whole tread, but putting this up here, in case it is of interest to anyone. It is sent by Advertising Producers Association, but I am sure there are freelancers from other fields in the same boat. (I am not Steve - this is copied from the email sent around by APA).

It is quite time sensitive as more people they have emailing them by 5pm today the better!

---------------------

This email has gone to the Treasury now. We have the greatest chance of success if everyone freelancer working in commercials emails [email protected] and says that they:

1 Will not receive any money under the freelance scheme (assuming that is true for them of course) and
2 Support the proposals put forward below.

Of course please share with everyone you know and, in particular, all the diary services.

5pm tomorrow Monday 30th March is the deadline for responses to the Treasury on the freelancer proposals announced last week. The fact they have invited responses means there must be a prospect they will listen to what we have to say.
Best Steve
a-p-a.net
0207 434 2651

Dear Sir or Madam
Thank you for your proposals to help freelancers and for the opportunity to make comments/proposals on your steps so far. We make this submission on behalf of the many freelancers in commercials production and jointly with Moore Kingston Smith, accountants, whose clients include many of those freelancers. Our member companies engage many freelancers and our interest reflects our members concern for them.
While the proposals are welcome, our survey of freelancers in commercials production (via a Zoom call with 233 participants on Friday 27th March and emails) is that over 90% of freelancers in commercials production and advertising generally will not be able to participate. We therefore propose the following changes:
1 We propose that the £50,000 cap is removed. We appreciate that is there to focus the assistance on poorer people but it is arbitrary and a household where the sole bread winner on £50,000 or even £80,000 per year, for example, will still likely be in a parlous position without any assistance during this unprecedented time. Of course, there is still an effective cap of £2,500 per month, so, in our view, the second cap of £50,000 should be
removed. This would create parity with the salary grant where no such cap applies.
2 Most freelancers working in our sector work through a limited company through which they provide their services. Generally they are required to do so by the companies who engage them- who among other things want to avoid the possibility of their winning any employment law rights.
So we propose that in circumstances where freelancers provide their individual services through their limited company that their combined salary and dividends be counted as income for the purpose of calculating the grant. Without that, given most of what they are paid is in dividends, your intention to help them will not become a reality.
3 Many people have become freelance less than 3 years ago. It is fairly common to chop and change between employment and freelance work in our sector. We would propose that you allow anyone who is freelance to file their 5 April 2020 tax return by 31 May 2020 and for their 19/20 income to be included for the purpose of calculating the grant. Again, without this, a whole group of people will be arbitrarily left out altogether.
We appreciate your consideration of these proposals and your work to assist people and businesses during this crisis.
Best regard
Steve
Steve Davies
Chief Executive
Advertising Producers Association
a-p-a.net
0207 434 2651

Bflatmajorsharp · 30/03/2020 16:45

All excellent points. I've just emailed the Treasury with a summary of those proposals:-

  1. remove the £50,000 cap and retain the £2,500 monthly cap, to give parity with employees.
  2. take into account that many industries require their freelancers to be registered as a Ltd company. Their pay and dividends should be included.
  3. Permit people to submit a 2019/2020 tax return now so that this can be taken into account when accessing eligibility.
OP posts:
Bflatmajorsharp · 02/05/2020 15:04

Just wanted to resurrect this thread. Hope that everyone is bearing up.

I received an email from the HMRC yesterday inviting me to join one of their webinars for SE people re the SEISS (Self-employed Income Suport Scheme).

There's a link to join a webinar via their website here, for anyone who hasn't received the round robin email.

register.gotowebinar.com/rt/4081320498512977155?source=Apr-HMRC-GOV

OP posts:
minniemooblue · 04/05/2020 20:12

You can now check if you're eligible by going on the government website. Claims can be made from midday on the 13th May.
Hope that helps

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