Economics vs public health. **MNHQ has altered title**

[Mohster]

As you will see for a long time I have been advocating that the govt was putting economics before lives and their plan was to create a herd immunity by sacrificing lives on an acceptable casualties basis. This was totally apparent if you listen to the interview given to Channel 4 where it was suggested as an answer to a question put by the presenter that many would die whilst the govt tried to create herd immunity as being inevitable.

Now Dominic Cummings chief adviser has been caught out for following this strategy and quoted by papers and the Sunday Times in particular as wanting to let the elderly die to save the economy.

You don't need to take them word for it - just look a the govt plan - contain essentially consisted of the suggestion that we should wash our hands. The delay was effectively none existant and the schools were only closed as a result of parents taking their children out of shcool and the forcase that 250000 could die. In fact the govt was rushing thorugh legistlation in the following week to force parents to take their kids to school and it was only scrapped a thte last minute by the estimates publication.

That left mitigation, mitigation of damage to the economy. The PM and govt are as a result backtracking.

The suggestion is that Dominic Cummings had said let the old die whilst we get herd immunity but now seeing what is happening in Italy and likely the fact that the virus is now killing younger people, they are quickly backtracking having failed to contain or delay because they did nothing.

As a result of their false assurances and that we just have to wash our hands the public flocked to public areas and their plans have put us in a position that will result in many more dying. The govt of other countries are now publicly criticising the govt. All of this now means at last these people who are ignorant of the risk will likely make a lock-down more likely.

I personally think that they should face criminal charges if a corporate body was to make such decisions the CEO and directors would be imprisoned.

Critical cases. Show as 163 @Mohster

There's an interesting (densely statistical) article in The Spectator by a pathology professor discussing how the mortality figures have been treated in different countries, which goes some way to explaining the disparity of outcomes. I won't attempt a proper synopsis except to say that some countries have attributed deaths to CV19 as the cause despite the deceased having had a string of co-morbities because it is currently a notifiable disease. Author is Dr John Lee, and I would recommend it. Although there's a paywall you can read five articles a month free if you register.

It's fairly clear from the experience and stats so far that COVId-19 is much worse for anyone elderly and in poor health. Once everyone is back at work, and paying higher rates of tax to rebalance the nation's finances, there will be questions about the triage choices that are being forced on the NHS.

Personally, I am healthy at 63 but I have three living parents/inlaws aged from 85 to 91, and two of them are weakening into poor health. Should they contract CV19, I would not expect them to get more than palliative care, and TBF, I am pretty sure that DNR is on all their paperwork.

We do need to have a discussion, somewhere, about death on mumsnet. It is the ONLY universal event.

I think that as resources become stretched they will apply triage and this will follow naturally. Then unfortunately they get to the position where they have to choose what they are going to do so in Spain they have decided that anybody over 65 is to be sedated and if they survive naturally then ok but otherwise this is the safest and most humane way forward. It's sad and it clearly is hard to decide these principles or even apply the sedative as it's like killing somebody with an injection and goes against any doctors principles. Unfortunately, there is no easy way forward. The ventilators themselves are quite a strain on the body and causes its own problems. Difficult times and I don't envy anybody in the health industry at the moment. The doctors I saw are clearly having psychological problems from these issues as well as being overwhelmed by the floods of people coming through the doors.

The point is that one sure way to let the economy to fail is to try to prevent it from falling by sacrificing the ones who are integral in it running. It is clear that the govt is too busy looking at statistical modelling and thinks herd immunity is the way to reduce the cost to the economy but that sacrifices the masses to save those at the top who have falling share portfolios. The way forward was good containment and then good polices to control the spread they started out thinking we must keep the economy afloat and risk the old to save the young, but then when the figures started to rise quicker than their modelling they jumped to a half baked model of delay and mitigation. All the countries, Italy, the US and Sweden who went for the same herd immunity model have the highest rises. In the US the experts changed the course albeit after masses of cases and deaths but in the UK we here that they are now suggesting the lockdown was poss wrong and herd immunity sacrificing those at the elder ages would be better. Unfortunately, viruses don't care for statistics and statistics don't work for new viruses with different characteristics even the one who was championing this plan was sent covering his arse by trying to say that lockdown should have happened earlier. the real experts don't get a say as the news they have is not good. But at least it is the truth. People are not disposable I'm sure you agree, whilst they fiddle with the modelling trying to get the stats for the economy in their favour. Most of us don't have massive share portfolios but I can guarantee every one of them has. Even Trump backed down and let his experts take charge and he actually stated that Boris went for the Herd plan and now they have terrible nos. and terrible things over there. At present, the figures will place the UK at the top of Europes deaths per 1000 list and it as the lack of pope, ventilators etc are all down to bad management and a headless chicken attitude caused by too many figures and too many people with differing views. This isn't giving us a few months to think about it and get back to us. If you can t get it to work look at the models that have got it to work and oh yes they saved their economies also by good containment and management.South Korea, Singapore, Germany and yes Czech who brought the virus down to its knees by everyone wearing masks. I just hope that there are enquiries into the thinking and plans that this govt has followed as I personally think its criminal. They had 3 months and id like to know what they were doing because if they didn't get the message in those 3 months that they have to prepare by producing ventilators, masks, ppe. Save our NHS they're the ones who should answer why our doctors and nurses have less protective gear than some developing countries. www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/coronavirus-gwent-cases-deaths-wales-18080430