Is my Childminder being unreasonable?

[Tulips99]

To ask for 50% of fees whilst closed to retain my child's place?

That should be IS staying open

Ours is charging 50% and it’s not even an issue. If you refused you’d effectively need to give notice and then if I was you I’d look for someone else when everything gets back to normal.

On the childminder issue presumably they can carry on operating. There is no legislation so far forcing them to close so surely they keep the children and let the parents continue to work and keep getting paid.

@Xenia Childminders are subject to the same closure rules as nurseries and schools. They are only able to care for children of key workers at present.

But some of these parents will also be self employed with no income. Why is it that Childminder’s get special treatment?!

We don't get special treatment!
We have terms and conditions which we set - clients come along and either accept these terms or they don't.
It's unacceptable to take a place at a childminding setting, accepting the terms and conditions then moan or refuse to pay.

Obviously in this current pandemic it is entirely unforeseen circumstances so if the childminders changes the original terms and demands full pay and refuses to open for your child then you can refuse those terms and leave that service.

I am a decent Cm and would never hold parents to ransom like that.

Be careful in choosing your Cm in the first place, a red flag would be one who charges all year for her holidays and sickness. It's not a self employed entitlement, it's unprofessional and greedy imo.

Please try and be supportive in a crisis like this though. Losing a business and worrying about how your going to live is a horrible predicament to be in.

@EstebanTheMagnificent

Childminders are subject to the same closure rules as nurseries and schools. They are only able to care for children of key workers at present.

Ahem, that government guidance is only relevant for England. Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are still operating as normal.

England is not the whole Uk

Of course it's fair. What do you think she is supposed to do? Only not fair if you have lost your income.

@xenia
My childminder has agreed to stay open. She says no one is going to be checking on her and she only has a couple of kids anyway - mine being the only one full time. For all the government knows she is a close personal friend who has agreed to help me out with childcare so that I keep working

@lucielucie

Problem is that usually in an area many Childminder's set the demands - especially where there is a lack of affordable childcare and more kids than space. So you have to agree to whatever terms they set. Most parents don't have the luxury of choosing between half a dozen childminders and therefore able to pick and choose the terms which suit them best

@CatAnnoyance that’s outrageous! There’s Not a chance in those circumstances I’d continue to pay.

I am in 2 minds. My childminder contract says if they cannot provide childcare for whatever reason, we don't pay. They have now asked for 50% of fees as this is such an unusual situation.

However the only reason my husband and I are still getting a wage is because we are both working full time still from home. Only now we both have to work full time while looking after a toddler full time as well. We are having to work until 1am pretty much every day to get our work done. We've had to pay gardeners and cleaners more than our monthly childcare cost because we don't have time to do anything (and I thought I had this money spare because we wouldn't be paying for the childcare) and I feel physically ill from all this (not helped by being 6 months pregnant).

I then see pleas for extra temporary staff at all our local supermarkets in several different roles and it does seem frustrating that I'll be paying my childminder £450/month for doing nothing, as will the other 3 parents, when they could go and get a temporary job.

itwasa, I think that is the best approach - staying open just as everyone who has a daily nanny at their house can carry on with that child care whilst they work fro home or their workplace if they can't work from home. Also the possible legislation to force places to close has not been passed yet so it is a bit much for private sector places to close and demand being paid whilst closed when the parents will be working and need to pay someone else to look after their children whilst they do. No one is offering to pay parents' childcare costs.

My Childminder charge a full fees during all holidays whether child there or not

Presumably you signed the contract? You didn't have to.

I’m just so baffled by this thread.

All the handwringing about how the Cm will possibly survive if all the selfish parents don’t continue to pay for the service they’re not receiving.

The Cm is self employed and, like all SE people, needs to accept the rough with the smooth.

The perks are numerous - working from home, being your own boss with complete autonomy over your hours and prices and clients.

The risks are that if something happens where you can’t provide the service, you don’t get paid.

I feel for ALL SE people at this time because it’s fucking horrific.

But I’m not going to go to my local restaurant and slide £80 under the door for the meal we didn’t have last night. Nor am I going to transfer my local hairdresser £30 for my appointment that she just cancelled. And I’m not going to hand over £150 for the leisure centre venue and that just cancelled my sons party for 2 weeks.

CM’s are no different.

If this goes on for a year, most people will stop paying. Then cms will get jobs (sensibly) and give notice to the remainers...and I doubt they’ll be paying back the 6 months of £500 that you’ve paid them to ‘hold the space’.

Whilst I feel for CM’s I still think people planning on paying them for months for services not received are crazy.

Peridot I disagree. Childcare is not simply a service you buy in, it is quite a personal relationship. I believe my cm cares about my dc in a way that goes beyond a professional relationship. We know a lot of intimate things about each other's families (our dp's work arrangements, issues with our kids at school and so on). I care about her and her family, and I want to do the right thing by her. She has gone above and beyond for my dc many times.

On a selfish basis, I desperately want her to survive this period, because I want her to keep having the dc when things get back to normal.

Depends if you want childcare for your child when this is all over. My friend is a childminder and if you were her client that didn't want to pay 50% (if you aren't self employed and are still receiving a wage) then she would give you notice. Childminders have a network of people and they do talk. Therefore, you're unlikely to find childcare with any other local childminder afterwards.
Think very carefully before you make the decision not to pay. She is being very reasonable offering 50% fees and she'll probably struggle to live on that!

@nokidshere

Yes because that's the standard in my area and I had no choice - seems to me that many childminders run a bit of a cartel - banding together to keep prices and terms and conditions the same so that there is no choice but to sign up to them if you want childcare.

God forbid that you then ask them to sign up to 30 hours or the tax free childcare account (which by the way ARE easy to do and you DO get paid on time through!)

@Stompythedinosaur

I thought that too until I asked if she would sign up to the tax free childcare account - then she got very business like!

No not at all. You'd be unreasonable not to pay it - it's fair to share the loss.

Hmm, she can't exactly give your child's place to anyone else, can she?

Yes, she can. She can give it to other key workers' children.

If you do pay your childminder a retainer, can you pay it through your tax-free childcare account (i.e., you only pay 80% of childcare costs because the government pays 20%)? I really do hope so.

Also, is the government going to offer any help to self-employed workers?

Sorry I've only just caught up on this. I wasnt expecting so many answers! I'm going to be honest now. This was a reverse. I am the CM. I work with my husband and this is our only income. And before anyone says no I dont employ him so I cant claim 80% of his wage. Last weeks news has absolutely devastated us. I knew schools would close but I never expected Childminding settings to. We have 4 - 6 little ones per day max. A couple of after schoolers. Between us earn enough to get buy and have 2 kids ourselves. Some parents are key workers. 2 have offered to pay full fees. Others have readily agreed 50%, all with supporting messages. However we are still massively down on income. And no we cant afford to put enough away to allow for this. We will be ok next month and part way through May. Then that's it. Without parents contributing we will have to close down and look for other work. I need to know by next week what parents will do as I will not ask for a retainer fee then give up. The choice will be made in the next few days. We are heartbroken. I have had no choice but to ask for a retainer. This is 7 families in total. I know they are all on full pay as they have told me. As it stands right now. 2 of them have ignored previous emails and posts on my group. In my mind not only am I insulted but unless I am absolutely desperate I will never have them back as they have valued me and my family so little. I am genuinely relieved that most replies agree with what I have proposed and since posting this morning I have worked out the bear minimum we can survive on and resent a message to lower the retainer to 25% as others have agreed to pay in full. When all this is over I will never forgive those people who still will not pay but expect a place back immediately when I can offer it. Thank you for all your opinions.

@Tulipstulips I feel for you that's tough.

DH and I have a predicament. I'm freelance so my work has gone overnight. He is employed but in the airline industry so no work for him for the foreseeable future. He is employed though so hopefully will get the £2500 from the government.

The problem is that we can't afford nursery, mortgage and bills on that, not even close. Nursery have said we have to keep paying. I'm desperate not to lose DDs place but I have literally no idea what we're going to do to manage.

I think if people are claiming tax credits for childcare or like when i studied at uni i got 80% paid then if that continues you should pay that to the childcare, but it would be reasonable to not pay the other 20% as they can manage on 80% not feeding your child etc while you will be. If people do get a 50% reduction yet still get the 80% chikdcare help then they would be getting 30% of the help plus saving 20% usually paid so it would mean they would be better off if still getting their wages. if people claim the help and choose not to keep paying the chikdminder then the childminder will likely remove the child from their books and the person claiming will end up being overpaid. I forsee many doing this, but the gov will check the circumstances at some point and childminders who didnt get paid will no doubt be delighted to let the gov know that.

"If she finds a job she’ll be giving notice to the 6 families on her books. Obviously no refunds.
..... Plenty of the morally superior will be ££££s down in 6 months time and still no childcare space to return to."

This is the big danger of continuing to pay even 50% to a CM or nursery:
they may not remain in business anyway
they could decide it's too risky, or not enough other people paid

Maybe taking the risk for a month is 1 thing,
but this could go on for 3 months or to September or ....