Is my Childminder being unreasonable?

[Tulips99]

To ask for 50% of fees whilst closed to retain my child's place?

personally i think it's short sighted of my cm to want full fees as my youngest is starting nursery in September so I don't need the place over the Summer. I'm happy to pay just not 100%

Childminders have a network of people and they do talk. Therefore, you're unlikely to find childcare with any other local childminder afterwards

Sorry blacklisting ppl is unethical. What are you, some sort of cartel?

If they don’t want to pay sure drop them but don’t go around trying to get them rejected elsewhere

I am happy to pay 50%, even a bit more but 100% is just greedy.

@adaline actually they use Tesco's. Delivery daily, so you don't know everything

@Tulips99 why can't one of you get a temporary job?
The parents may be on full pay but are they actually expected to still be working full time? If so what do you expect them to do for childcare?
We are trying to find other options with a friend or family member, butwe would have to pay them. And we can't afford to pay half fees to a childminder plus full cost to someone else.

why can't one of you get a temporary job?

Exactly. It's your responsibility to feed your children, not your customers. This is a shit situation for everyone but at least you are a two parent family and there are plenty of temp jobs out there right now. Some of your customers are probably in a worse situation than you.

Coming on here badmouthing your customers is ridiculous - take some responsibility. You chose to set up your own business and you knew it was risky. Shit happens, deal with it and stop asking for handouts. You're not a charity.

Are you also going to keep sending your local coffee shop money for the coffee you can no longer buy? Are you going to keep paying for the ubers you no longer take? I doubt it.

Don't be so greedy.

How many people arguing against have actually used a childminder? Just out of interest, I guess more to the point, one you have actually gotten along with? Most won't find temp jobs I expect as their partners are working and there's no childcare, a lot have young children themselves. I don't think it's anything like paying for a coffee when you aren't having one, that is purely transactional, even if the barista is friendly. Our childminder yes of course, does it for the money, it is a job; but she is also fantastic and she is amazing with our DS. Because she does look after someone so precious of course we have gotten to know eachother. We aren't best mates or anything, but definitely beyond just dropping him off and saying hi. She has bent over backwards to help when I've been struggling, or DS has been poorly she has dropped toys over, it's a bit of a cheesy one and I wouldn't say she is part of the family, but I definitely care about her and this is really worrying. Being on full pay even though I will have to juggle working from home with looking after him, it doesn't bother me. She might shut shop in the end if it goes on for too long, it's a risk we can afford to take. Many can't, and they should talk to their CM, but the stuff about morally not paying in the context of someone like a CM even if you can I find odd, personally.

Well said @Marieo

@Marieo are you paying full pay for the 9 weeks of holidays if we are off until Sept

@mochajoes 9? It's 23 weeks until September. & schools may not even open then.

I use the childminder twice a week so not quite as galling as paying for 5 days but I will be paying for as long as this goes on!

She is a single mum with rent and bills to pay. I'm getting paid so it would be immoral of me not to pay her. Obviously not everyone is in the same boat (some have lost their jobs etc) so I want her to have her basics needs met.

@ClassicallyConditioned the 23 weeks left till September aren't all holidays are they? Some of it is the school summer term.

@Marieo
So you (and I) have to juggle a full time job with full time childcare, but she can't get a temporary job as she may have to juggle full time work with full time childcare? How is it fair parents have to make that sacrifice while the childminders get paid to do literally nothing?
My childminder is great. But she doesn't have young kids and could get a temporary job. I will still pay because I don't want to lose her services but it will be financially difficult for us and I don't think it's fair

@mochajoes nope, because I don't pay for holidays anyway, so that would be unreasonable.

@ClassicallyConditioned yep it could be a while, if the government gives self employed people any financial breaks then we will adjust accordingly, if not then we will pay. We are by no means rich, but we are still recieveing the same money, and I would rather support those that need it then sit on my savings of not having to commute etc I'm gaining by working from home. We are both key workers so could technically use her, but as I can stay home we aren't.

@cyantist If it's financially difficult for you then no, you shouldn't pay full whack. As I have said, we are because we can, there are after school mindees that can't, so we are helping to keep their place open as well effectively. It's unprecendented, we don't mind doing what we can for others; if we didn't have the means then we would talk to her. She has offered much lower rates for the following months if still closed, we will pay because we can, again, to support those who can't as well as the CM. If she doesn't have young children then yep, it isn't unreasonable for her to look for another job if people are telling her they want to keep on her books but because of everything they can't pay; situations like this should have flexibility both sides.

Our nursery have said if we can, pay 50% while they're off. If you can't, then fine. My dd only goes 2 sessions a wk, I've said I'll pay it. If the nursery goes out of business, there might not be a nursery to go back to when this is all over. It's affecting everyone.

As well as looking to the contract I’d also suggest parents think about what would happen if the roles were reversed.

If as the parent you had lost your job but needed your child in care for 6 weeks or more for free would your childminder have facilitated this? To save your business and financial security. If the answer is yes you should probably pay, but I’m not sure how many people will be able to say that.

@marieo ok, I do hence why I'm reluctant. I don't get the EYs funding discount over the holidays so will have to pay £1.8k just for holidays time.

If as the parent you had lost your job but needed your child in care for 6 weeks or more for free would your childminder have facilitated this? To save your business and financial security. If the answer is yes you should probably pay, but I’m not sure how many people will be able to say that

Excellent point.

@mochajoes have you asked them about it? It would be unreasonable for them to ask for holidays as well in my opinion as there should be at least some meeting in the middle. Apparently the government are announcing some measures for the self employed today, who CMs fall under- if they can apply for support, it would then be unreasonable for them to charge full rate, or perhaps anything. I would wait until the end of the day and then see what's going on. At the end of the day all of our circumstances are different, I do think people should pay if they can, but if not then they shouldn't; if people who could do then it would likely take pressure of those who can't. There will probably be spaces when this is over elsewhere if you really can't come to an agreement, I guess it depends.

@PegasusReturns I don't really get why that is the same. Its like saying because the CMs are closed due to CV, would you go to work for 6 weeks for free.

@Marieo no not yet, but I have a feeling she will ask for full fees. I'm waiting to see what gov says about the SE today as you say. Completely happy for her to get the funding still & top up. If she still wants 100% for holidays I will just give notice as after Summer he will go to the school nursery. I'm hoping we can meet in the middle.

Yes, I agree with the comment above look at the contract. It is like the UN has said on the virus - test test test. With nannies, child minders, nurseries (and plenty of other businesses) it is contract, contract, contract first to find out your legal position and if you want to be kinder and can afford to be than that that's fine. Then look at any recent legislation and remember the Cornavirus Bill is not yet law but may be soon. and rules about who might be paid for what.

One issue that is huge and may be mumsnet could get behind is:-

A parent asked to work from home or indeed still out working (assume here non essential workers) of a baby, a toddler or school age child will need childcare for the 7 or 10 hours they are working each day.

Some will be able to share with a spouse and work through the night when children sleep. Some will have huge 14 year olds who can watch TV for 6 months or vandalise the neighbour hood whilst parents work to feed them. Others however will have to pay from their own funds with no tax deductability and no state subsidy out of after tax income (subject to existing tax rights £2k a year for registered child care etc).

For many in cities that is likely to be about £10 an hour so say including parental commuting time about £100 a day or £500 a week or £2167 a month.

As far as I can see at present this will be a cost for the parent arising from the nursery closing or the childminder gong or holiday club closing over summer or the school refusing to accept key worker provisions apply. So that perhaps £24k (say £12k each per parent) plus nanny tax etc is not something the Government is choosing to pay. So i is saying stay home but we won't enable that and you will get £95 a week or something only if you lose your job and your life will be ruined if you do what we say.

This is an issue for non essential workers with children under about 12 and there are an awful lot of them. It is one reason I did not want that step to close schools and nurseries yet keep them open for essential workers. It ends up destroying lives financially.

@mochajoes that sounds more than fair enough. It's more a lot of people I work with can't actually do work from home, but are being paid full time to sit by a laptop and not do anything; and they are saying what they will do with all of the money they are going to save by not needing childcare, even though they are getting 100% pay, and letting the childminders who have been really good to them worry about feeding their own children. I know this is a huge minority, it just seems sad anyone has that attitude (I know you don't, just to explain why I feel so strongly haha).

Our childminder isn't charging anything (full-time toddler space and wrap around for primary school child). We've offered and she won't accept. She's going to get a wonderful birthday and Christmas present from us!

That's good :) it's the give and take, she can obviously afford not to, and it's only fair that she passes that on to parents.