Weird priorities in Italy

[nopointinstaying]

So it's being reported this evening that on top of existing measures people in Lombardy will no longer be able to exercise outdoors or use vending machines.

Now I understand the vending machines thing, but taking some basic exercise is good for mental health and physical wellbeing, and surely if taken in isolation will have a very low to negligible risk of contracting coronavirus. It will also limit people's intake of vitamin D by locking them indoors.

In the meantime, Italian supermarkets stay open, which I would suspect carries a far higher risk of infection.

Wouldn't it make sense to shut supermarkets and deliver rations rather than stop people exercising? This just doesn't make any sense.

This is directly relevant to the UK as it will probably be us in a week or two.

It will be because people are taking the piss and exercising in groups or socialising outside and saying it’s exercise or exercising in crowded places without caring about keeping the required distance.

Same as is happening here.

If people follow the rules none of these things have to be banned outright. But some don’t follow the rules so we all lose out.

Gotcha, that makes sense.

They should allow people to visit supermarkets based on their postcodes. So each area gets set days with flexibility for key workers. That way the supermarkets won't all get swamped.

Yes, it’ll be because of people taking the piss. It’s these people that will make things even more restrictive for the rest of us who are trying to be responsible.

They can’t shut supermarkets because people still eat and there aren’t enough people to deliver food to everyone.

From my point of view as a farmer in a tourist area we are finding it really scary how many people are out 'exercising' on our land.

The gates they are touching in and out of our farmyard (a footpath runs through it) are the same ones we have to touch numerous times a day to get to our lambing fields. Between us we have a number of at risk conditions (but would usually consider ourselves fit and healthy) so from a personal point of view are worried.

From a professional point of view none of us can get sick at the moment because it's lambing time, the most stressful and busy time of year for us. If we fall then sheep will suffer.

I just want to yell at them all GO HOME. That's without the usual problems of them letting their dogs shit everywhere and chase pregnant sheep.

One person per household is allowed to food shops. They have to carry s document confirming their address and as measures become stricter there are fines if you are shopping not near your home.
The vending machine ban is for a few reasons- tobacconists often have 2 or 3 slot machine style gaming machines and people hang round them for hours. Tobacconists can stay open but the machines must now be off.
The exercise thing is as pps have said. People would go for a walk along the seafront- but everyone can't decide to do that or it defeats the object. Etc.
No real keyworker list in Italy. Healthcare staff obviously and people who work in food shops and pharmacies.
Tonight's measure was the 4th tweak to the lockdown in 13 days. I expect there will be more.

It's not just Lombardia, it's the whole of Italy and has been for almost 2 weeks.

Smile - are you crazy - what are you suggesting all these people would have died without corona!!!!!!! Have you looked at the increase in death rates and the ages and type of relatively "minor" underlying health issues some of these people have.

Vitamin d can be easily supplemented

You can exercise indoors. One chap has even run a marathon going forwards and backwards along his balcony!

But even if you cannot for some reason exercise indoors, you are not going to die because you didn't exercise for a few weeks. You might however starve with no food, if you are facing weeks in isolation. So trip to food shops are a necessity. But they can be regulated (which you can go to, how often, go alone, cap on numbers inside at any time, enforced wide spacing of queue)

SCROWY I'm so sorry to read your Post. The farmers need looking after. This is what I've been worried about - a mass exodus of people coming down bringing the disease with no idea how to respect the Countryside. It happens where I live every weekend.They seem to be encouraged too. There needs to be a Lockdown with nobody allowed to move out of where they live. Maybe you could talk to your MP? I'm truly sorry.

@WhatWouldYouDoWhatWouldJesusDo this is already the case in my area at least, you can't leave the commune including for shopping, even if you live right near the border. The local police are checking ID cards at the supermarket and sending people away if they can't prove local residency.

People still need to eat. There are heavy restrictions on supermarkets and food shops already in terms of numbers.

In our area (not Lombardy) this has been the rule for a while. They mayor closed parks because too many people were meeting up for picnics, basketball etc

@Scrowy can you put signs up and lock gates? And approach them threateningly? Have a big burly bloke patrolling?
Surely in these circs you have a right to shut your land?
Sorry, I know it can't possibly be an easy thing to solve. I hope you all stay well.

The real question is and it is an awful one ...how many of the people would have died any way within x months due to their age/ comorbidities we are not being told that

Well since you asked for the data:
The normal death rate in Italy is about 10.6 per 1000 or about 1750 people a day.

Currently across the whole of Italy it’s roughly 2,100 per day - an increase of about 20% over the expected death rate.

BUT
not all of Italy is equally affected by the virus yet. Lombardy, for example has 2/3 of the deaths but only 1/6 of the population. Which would give it a much higher rate of increased deaths in areas with exponential growth.
And the number of deaths is still increasing exponentially. Given those two things, that 20% is likely to be quite conservative.

That would make a minimum of 110,000 extra deaths in England and Wales over the next year if the same happens here. Much more if we can’t get a hold on it.

My dad lives in northern Italy, the supermarkets in his town are only allowing 3 people in at any one time

Dh has just had a text from his cousin, the fine for being outside without a valid reason (food, medical supplies) is 5,000 euro.

Yup. That 20% is extremely conservative and doesn’t take into account a number of factors.

The one thing we can put to bed is the idea that these people would have died in the next few months anyway and there won’t be any excess mortality.

scrowy. Make a sign saying

BEWARE OF THE BULL
Mating Season
4 tourists were gored last year in this field. Your insurance does not cover you and you cannot sue me as you chose to ignore this warning sign. 🐮

@scrowy
We live in a village with farms all around us. It’s the beginning of lambing season. Walkers should and do know this they see the lamps and blooming well should keep away grrr.

If it's like the UK, parks are awash with people going for a run. I swear there will be an outbreak centred on Wimbledon Common because that place was heaving - so many people out exercising no way they were all 2m away from each other.

There are so many home workouts on line there is no need for it.