The Self Employed have been forgotten by the Government

[HuskyloverI]

Employees will receive 80% of their salary, up to £2500 per month.

The Self Employed will receive Statutory Sick Pay only, which is £376 per month.

This can't be right, can it? Am I missing something here?

it's covering 80% of wages for all but the highest paid

80% of "wage costs" to the employer.

There’s a useful graphic going around social media that shows this disparity, this MP has RT it:
mobile.twitter.com/DavidLammy/status/1241703062122700801

So take two people
One employed by employer, the other one self employed/gig economy/zero hours.
Both people have personal savings of 16k (..or if their partner does..)
Both have earnings of 40k
Employed person entitled to 30k of wage, government backed
Self employed/gig economy/zero hours person entitled to.. £0.

It’s really dangerous not just for the short term as people who are self employed/gig economy/zero hours try to eke out and live on what they or their partners have saved now all their work has dried up.

After they will have spent everything they have trying to keep themselves fed and housed for the duration of this (however long it lasts), they‘ll have no funds to restart their businesses when the public health crisis has passed. If they can restart, and they will have no personal financial cushion in the massive economic shock to come that is starting now which will extend in time beyond the health crisis.
This is needless, the government could stop it by acting now. They don’t seem to want to, I can’t understand why not?

The Republic of Ireland have put in same support for employed and self-employed people. They did this on 16 March.

COVID-19 Information for Employees and the Self Employed!
www.gov.ie/en/publication/eca524-covid-19-information-for-employees/

Meanwhile in the UK, self-employed people are on Twitter saying they will have to try to carry on working, (which could have an infection risk to themselves and others) as £94 a week not enough to feed and house their families. This is a needless public health risk to everyone, that the government could avoid by doing the right thing. What are they waiting for?

But most of the people who've lost their SE/freelance work can't continue working because their work doesn't currently exist. Plus they can only get the £94 if they are actually sick, so will be for a week or two at most.

While employed people who's work has stopped are able to sit at home on near full pay.

Barbara I totally agree with you. Many self employed or gig economy or zero hours workers absolutely don’t have that ‘option’ to work at this time because their whole industry has packed up and there is no work. But my point is those who can do, may be tempted to work through sheer economic desperation at government inertia and that is dangerous for themselves and everyone else if they can’t do their job with safe distancing.
People using the #selfemployed are talking about it:
mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/selfemployed?lang=en

Also the Women’s Equality Party have a petition calling for self employed people to get the same government support as employed, and noting the impact on women in specific sectors.

www.womensequality.org.uk/support_all_workers

This is their text:

Covid-19 is a global pandemic. It is crucial that we all follow the measures needed to tackle it while the people at the frontlines of the NHS do everything they can to save lives.

But those measures shouldn’t leave anyone fighting to keep their job, home or business.

Nobody should ever have to choose between their health and their livelihood.

Many self employed people, and those on zero hour contracts have already taken a major financial hit from this crisis, losing shifts, contracts and clients as the measures needed to tackle the spread of the virus became clear.

Some lost jobs before Government announcements of support for employees, others are expecting a drastic cut to their income as a result of social distancing.

Self employed childminders and nursery workers on zero hour contracts deliver the same essential services as employees, but they have no clarity on whether they will receive the income support they need, and are already being forced to make agonising choices about staying safe, supporting their clients, and paying their bills. We urgently need to release funds to support them and all workers who are affected by this crisis.

Political decisions to implement a decade of austerity after the last crisis resulted in higher numbers of women in precarious work and women becoming self-employed at a faster rate than men, as they faced public sector job losses and juggled additional caring responsibilities. Now school and nursery closures disproportionately require women to slash their working hours to care for their children, because unless they are key workers, caring almost always falls to women.

The Government’s response to this crisis must protect the women who bore the brunt of the last one.

WE are calling on the Government to do whatever it takes to secure the incomes of people who are watching their work collapse before their eyes by:

Guaranteeing 80% of self-employed workers’ average income, up to £2,500, just as they have for PAYE employees
Urgently releasing emergency financial support through the benefit system until the new system for reimbursing 80% of lost wages is established, with a guarantee that no one will be penalised when their wages are finally reimbursed;
Abolishing the 5 week wait for Government benefits for every new claimant; and
An immediate end to the two child limit for benefit claimants

Social distancing protects us all. We urgently need to support all workers to ensure that they are able to take the actions that will keep us all safe.

If you’re self employed you don’t get sick pay or holiday pay. Anything can happen - you can have an accident and be unable to work for months or there may no longer be a demand for what you’re offering. That is the nature of being self employed. It’s is entirely different to being employed by a company

If you are employed you get sick pay and holiday pay and maternity pay and you generally have more job security that a SE person. However anything can happen - you can have an accident and be unable to work for months or there may no longer be a demand for what you are offering. In the circumstances that you get sick or have an accident it is unlikely (unless you have an amazing contract) that your company will keep you on indefinitely if you do not recover. Or if your role is no longer necessary it is likely that your company will make you redundant. So not so very different.

I have been SE for 16 years and have earned a stable amount each year during that time (even when I have periods where I may not work for a few weeks at a time). Despite the fact that government measures have reduced my income to zero and I will not be entitled to any help from the government as my savings fall slightly outside of the 16000 savings limit. The very least the government could do is allow SE to claim UC for the duration (not just if they get sick) of the measures and remove the savings limit so that there is not such a massive disparity to the employed who could have £100,000 in the bank and still be entitled to receive 80% of their pay.

Lets face it, we will all (SE people included) be paying for this period of emergency through taxes and austerity etc. So there should at least be some attempt to help people equally now.

There is a Bill going through parliament on self employed being given 80% of their earnings, to £2,900pm, based on three years tax returns, averaged.

I'm sure it will be passed.

I hope so. Most of the crushes on tubes are no duh they self employed who need to work.

VanGoghsDog that sounds hopeful, where have you seen that info do you have a link?

I found this

publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-01/0122/amend/coronavirus_daily_cwh_0320rev.14-18.html

My DH is s/e and he will be out of work by Friday. I work full time on an employed basis. This is going to have a huge impact on us financially. Not sure why others think self employed people pay less tax, he pays his 20% a week and then pays his NI bill every year. Hopefully something can be done as this is cruelly unfair to all self employed workers who contribute the same as employed workers.

Thanks for the link I shall pass on to my DH

Yes this is so terrifying, savethecat. We rely on my husband's business for 50% of his income . He is on contract (thank goodness until the summer) for a few courses he delivers at an adult educational establishment, however this wont be enough to cover bill and sundries, it's difficult enough for us during the run of the mill times . Also my contract runs out end of Easter and I was supposed to supply teach after that, but obviously no money around. My money would just about cover the mortgage. We can't seem to claim anything. I will try that 80% thing even though my work finishes in a couple of weeks. I have applied for a shelf stacking job but no reply, I think everyone has applied for them. I feel on the verge of tears constantly.

Apparently ‘help is coming’ but they are thinking what to do because they think some freelancers are going to have more work as a result? WTF. Literally, who? Name any industry please.

Meanwhile everyone else is sick with worry about making ends meet. It would even be something if they firmly committed to helping zero hours/freelancers/gig economy workers via announcement and then said they would work out the details after.

^ sorry I forgot to put the link in for that one above. I was talking about this article:
Coronavirus: ‘How is £94 a week going to pay anyone’s bills?’
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52005581

It’s as much a public health protection measure as it as an economic hardship support, for the government to pay freelancers an income they can live on in this period. The government refusal to help freelancers (like construction workers) is for example, completely avoidably raising risks on public transport for everyone. I can’t blame these workers at all for trying to get to work whatever their state of health because they know they won’t earn enough to be fed or housed if they don’t turn up to work. What other option must they feel they have they got? And no, simply shutting construction sites is not the answer. These workers need to be paid in order to eat and live and be housed. None of that is complicated or hard to predict.

The government must act very quickly to set out what it will do. London’s health risks are particularly exacerbated by this because of population density but all over the country this kind of avoidable public health risk is being played out. I’m going to be writing to my MP, this is awful to see.

Coronavirus: Sadiq Khan warns 'stop Tube travel or more will die'
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52017910

Analysis
By BBC London's transport correspondent Tom Edwards
Public transport is currently meant to be for "critical workers" only but it doesn't seem to be working.
Union reps on the tube have been left apoplectic for a second day because lines have been very very busy, particularly at the start of the service.
Footage I have seen shows passengers crammed in next to each other and there is now talk among members of staff who are union members of a walkout - they are so unhappy with the situation.
They are particularly picking out construction workers and believe all the sites in London should be closed. They want the government to put forward a financial package for these self-employed workers.
There are also calls for ID checks at stations or the definition of key worker to be tightened.
In the strongest wording I have ever seen - Transport for London says fewer people need to travel or people will die.

More about the specific risks in London:
Coronavirus: Four things stats say about the pandemic in London
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-52010073

This shows that further measures including shutting down the tube are being considered. How will essential key workers we need, at hospitals all over London apart from other essential services, get to work if they have to shut the tube? The government should be making any steps it can to reassure ALL workers that they won’t starve if they can’t physically get to work. That has to include freelancers, zero hours contracted workers and gig economy workers.

Of course it's a public health issue.

Those photos of packed tube trains that are circulating are of low paid, gig economy, hire-by-the-day workers whose work is essential to them in terms of being able to buy food and pay rent.

'Help is coming but we need to make sure that we get it right' is ridiculous.

It needs to be in place now.

Policy editor of Newsnight on the current state of Universal Credit

Waiting times are astronomical

twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1242540931800338434?s=20

“Statutory self-employment pay
(1) The Secretary of State must, by regulations made by statutory
instrument, introduce a scheme of statutory self-employment pay for
those whose work has been impacted as a result of the coronavirus.
(2) The scheme must make provision for payments to be made out of
public funds to individuals who are—
(a) self-employed, or
(b) freelancers.
(3) Regulations made under subsection (1) may define the meanings of
“self-employed” and “freelancers” in subsection (2).
(4) The payments to be made under subsection (2) are to be set such that
the gross monthly earnings of an individual specified in subsection (2)
do not fall below—
(a) 80 per cent of their gross monthly earnings, averaged over the
previous 3 years (or if records do not date back 3 years, the
monthly net earnings averaged for the period records are
available), or
(b) £2,500,
whichever is lower.
(5) No payment made under subsection (2) shall exceed £2,500 per month.
(6) Regulations made under subsection (1) may provide that payments
made under subsection (2) must be paid back via self-assessment if the
payments were made in error.
(7) A statutory instrument containing regulations under this section is
subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of
Parliament.”

You are all welcome.

I believe that is a proposed amendment that has not been passed

Ok so the government have produced a package- excellent, I am grateful. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52053914
However does it work for everyone? Will there be appeals or recourse when gaps are spotted?
In this article ‘I’m devastated there’s no support for me’ some newly self employed people are left high and dry. This doesn’t seem to apply to the employed people.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52057858
And- concerningly, Rishi Sunak says there will be tax changes for self employed people coming down the line to make them not pay ‘less tax’. How does that work? I mean, I’m employed. If my employer charged me to provide my own desk, office, utilities, equipment, insurance, pension scheme, payroll, HR, uniforms, in fact every single aspect of back and front office function, plus the lack of holiday and sick pay and mat leave, no guarantee of continuous employment even if I did a fantastic job.. I’d want a tax schedule that reflects the costs I am personally bearing that an employer doesn’t have to pay for because they fall to me. That seems pretty much the position of self employed people, what have I misunderstood?

SE people don't 'pay less tax'.

Our tax codes are the same per taxable profit as for people paying PAYE.

I think it's quite possible that Sunak doesn't know anything about the nitty gritty of tax - presumably he has an accountant who does it all for him.