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Original poster

The Self Employed have been forgotten by the Government

97 replies

HuskyloverI · 21/03/2020 08:54

Employees will receive 80% of their salary, up to £2500 per month.

The Self Employed will receive Statutory Sick Pay only, which is £376 per month.

This can't be right, can it? Am I missing something here?

OP posts:
HotDogGuy · 21/03/2020 13:30

This will not be a popular view and I am gonna get lynched but...
If you’re self employed you don’t get sick pay or holiday pay. Anything can happen - you can have an accident and be unable to work for months or there may no longer be a demand for what you’re offering. That is the nature of being self employed. It’s is entirely different to being employed by a company. Therefore it has always been important to have a back up.
My husband is self employed he has no work in. He may not get paid what he is owed. The government has done something - yes it is not a lot but I’m not entirely sure what they should be doing. Matching a self employed person’s worst month earnings in the last year? Best month? Average? If the first for us that would be less than SSP.

savethecat · 21/03/2020 13:34

@HotDogGuy I appreciate that but it depends on the situation. For one, insurances are unlikely to pay for this kind of situation and the other is the range of different businesses. For my DHs, for example, he has council contracts with schools and they have said that since schools are closed then they get NOTHING, despite having these contracts for 38 weeks of a year. Really couldn't have planned for schools closing/

dejavuAgain · 21/03/2020 13:34

@undercoveraessedai

@Hingeandbracket

More fool you if you aren't taking advantage of tax breaks. This should get you started.

www.simplybusiness.co.uk/knowledge/articles/2019/03/self-employed-tax-allowance-changes/

savethecat · 21/03/2020 13:35

I take advantage of tax breaks but still pay more tax than when I was employed

Hingeandbracket · 21/03/2020 13:35

@HotDogGuy I think (as a self employed person) you are right, but the eventualities you described can be insured against and provided for. The current situation couldn't really have been planned for or forseen.

It's not a claim for any special treatment - I and all the self-employed people I know have made what provision we can and we accepted the risks. The problem is that we're now not able to play any part in the overall picture - and telling people "you should have planned" isn't going to pay the mortgages or feed the kids of those who didn't for whatever reason.

Hingeandbracket · 21/03/2020 13:38

@dejavuAgain
Your link doesn't explain how I am paying "less tax" as a self employed person.

savethecat · 21/03/2020 13:39

Most self-employed people I know work when they are sick anyway. I know we do.

VanGoghsDog · 21/03/2020 13:46

@Ohffs66

He can claim ESA or universal credit. It's not much help but it's something.

Mysterian · 21/03/2020 13:47

I'm a zero hours worker. Literally now. I'm stuffed, but have some savings to fall back on.

DateLoaf · 21/03/2020 13:50

It’s awful. Many self employed people’s work has completely dried up instantly with this. No income at all. And outstanding payments already owed to them are late or never going to come because of other companies and individuals delaying payment or not getting paid themselves. Government must help and fast.

Roselilly36 · 21/03/2020 13:51

I really feel for the self employed, the government have got to help them surely.

RandomLondoner · 21/03/2020 13:51

This has been presented as a hand-out to employees, but that's not really the main purpose. The point isn't to provide for people who don't have work, we have the benefits system to do that job. The objective is to reduce the risk of short-term thinking by employers causing long-term economic disruption.

That logic does not apply to self-employed people. With their boss hat on, they don't have to decide whether the risk of paying themselves a salary when there's no work needs to be weighed against the risk that there will never be more work, making the salary payments a wasted expense.

savethecat · 21/03/2020 13:52

And some self-employed businesses actually directly closed down by the government, While we completely understand in these unprecedented events, some compensation would be gratefully accepted.

savethecat · 21/03/2020 13:54

@RandomLondoner our businesses pay contractors. Not employees but contractors nonetheless.

savethecat · 21/03/2020 13:58

We basically have to decide whether to pay them from our savings whilst receiving no income, just to keep them happy and available for when and if the business is able to recommence. (and no, being an employer is not an option for this set up, its all contractor work)

iklboo · 21/03/2020 14:11

Those tax changes don't apply to most self employed workers. None of those mean DH pays 'lower tax' than me or any other worker.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 21/03/2020 14:21

WTF with the lower taxes chat? I pay exactly the same taxes as an employed person. I am able to offset some business expenses against tax, which I accept as a trade-off for not being able to claim sick pay.

I've made reasonable provision for lean months/or not being able to work for a period of time, but no-one could have made provision for not having any work AT ALL. I've gone from turning work away to having 100% availability in the space of 3 weeks. It's petrifying. And yes, I do grudge the fact that the govt has forgotten about me and people like me.

VanGoghsDog · 21/03/2020 14:34

Money saved for tax must be disallowed as “savings” for calinjng UC. They are not savings, they are deferred HMRC payments.

True, a good strategy would be to make a payment on account to HMRC if you think this is going to be a problem for you.

rosesinmygarden · 21/03/2020 14:34

My husband is a carpenter and is paid via the CIS Scheme, he's already paid his tax and HMRC are fully aware of what he's earned.
We cannot survive on universal credit and there is no tax bill to defer......

CaptainButtock · 21/03/2020 14:37

It’s a real worry.

Please do go to Change.org to sign a petition created by the IPSE to lobby govt re this issue. (Or you can access it through the IPSE website)

Apologies for lack of clicky link....it’s beyond me! Maybe someone else could do it?

Saddler · 21/03/2020 14:38

Wait until Monday they're rolling things out as soon as possible

rosesinmygarden · 21/03/2020 15:09

They perhaps should have released all the information at the same time. Unfortunately it comes across that self employed people are second class.....

Bflatmajorsharp · 21/03/2020 15:17

Could we stop with the fake news that-

  • SE people pay less tax (we don't)
  • we will all lie about how much we earn (we don't, we submit a tax return to the HMRC every year)
  • there's no way of knowing what earnings will be this year (this is as true as it is for employees. HMRC use last years figures to set tax for this year for SE people.)

Thank you.

savethecat · 21/03/2020 15:38

I honestly don't know why this thread was moved to coronavirus when there are so many on the same theme left in AIBU

loobylou1967 · 21/03/2020 15:48

@HotDogGuy.
If you’re self employed you don’t get sick pay or holiday pay. Anything can happen - you can have an accident and be unable to work for months or there may no longer be a demand for what you’re offering. That is the nature of being self employed. It’s is entirely different to being employed by a company. Therefore it has always been important to have a back up.
21 years self-employed, you're right I don't get sick pay or holiday pay. If I have an accident I am insured, if I have a critical illness I am insured, if my business burns to the ground I am insured. This is because I have paid approximately £350,000 in premiums in the last 21 years. This was my "back up". Guess what.....insurance company will not pay out for Business interruption clause unless you are diagnosed with it on the premises and have been forced to close by EHO!! So my back-up plan went out of the window last night at midnight when last orders were called.