The Self Employed have been forgotten by the Government

[HuskyloverI]

Employees will receive 80% of their salary, up to £2500 per month.

The Self Employed will receive Statutory Sick Pay only, which is £376 per month.

This can't be right, can it? Am I missing something here?

I know a few applying for the CV interruption loan from Monday is that an option for anyone on here?

Ironic that the 80% wage payment thread allowed to stay in AIBU yet the self employed thread gets chucked into this topic.

Interruption loan is for businesses not for sole traders.

So can sole trader not apply for the WTC element?

DH is lucky, he is a self employed gardener and can continue working, he is telling all customers he will not go in their homes and if they need to speak to him they must ring him. If the country goes into lockdown and he is forced to stop working we will be in a very different situation.

I can work with clients remotely but the worry is that no one is booking as they cant afford it

www.change.org/p/uk-parliament-create-an-emergency-fund-to-support-freelancers-with-coronavirus-income-loss

More on the IPSE petition to support freelancers, I hope it will be well supported:
www.ipse.co.uk/ipse-news/news-listing/petition-temporary-income-protection-self-employed.html

I'm usually the first to criticise this government but I think people do have to understand that formulating this legislation takes time. Not months and years like usual but really give them a couple of days at least to come up with a law that will have such far reaching economic consequences. I know it's stress but I think what that have announced is an interim until that have a formula and system in place.

Maybe something to do with the SE being easier to step into other jobs? Maybe they are hoping the SE will come forward and start working in food distribution or care roles? It wouldn't necessarily be possible for employees to do this as they are still on the books for a different company.

A minimum wage job will not replace his wages.
So, despite paying tax every month as a CIS contractor, and paying national insurance too, that's the 'support' ...
We are both happy to work hard and would be happy to take on another job but our businesses and lives will be completely destroyed and we are not being treated the same as other tax payers.

I'm hoping something better than telling us to go and get a minimum wage job is announced. But I'm not holding my breath.

I no longer think self- employed people are being forgotten, I think they’re being ignored by the government. I just don’t understand why. It’s obvious that leaving them high and dry like this will harm the overall economy. The last thing that all of us should want to happen because a terrible economy with low consumer and business confidence affects all of us, however we are employed. We need to be on a footing to able to recover from this absolutely as soon as possible

Right so the OECD says

Global economy will suffer for years to come, says OECD
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52000219

Their advice to governments towards recovery:

‘The OECD is calling for a four-pronged plan to deal with the outbreak, including free virus testing, better equipment for doctors and nurses, cash transfers to workers including the self-employed and tax payment holidays for businesses.’

Why are self employed people seen as not worthy of the same support as employed people by government? It is very very concerning. I also don’t understand the politics behind it because in cold hard economic terms just ignoring them and letting their businesses completely fail is avoidably exacerbating our overall deep economic shock. Let alone being absolutely terrible for the individuals this affects.

@dejavuAgain lowers tax ? This is not true . Some other poster posted we save £325 in 25k earnings in NI not sure if that’s true BUT I’d rather trade that and get contributions to my pension and holiday pay. Of course self employed people try and make provision IF they can. I’m self employed as the childcare system in the UK was so crap 15 years ago.

I expect you will be happy for us to help pay back the 80% thru increased taxes .

This attitude really flipping annoys me .

So another expert from the US making the same point, St. Louis Federal Reserve President James Bullard:

Fed's Bullard: Coronavirus shutdown not a recession but an investment in survival

‘Bullard argues the shutdown measures now being rolled out are essential to shortening the course of the pandemic.

They must also be coupled with massive federal government support to sustain the population through its coming isolation and prime the economy to pick up where it left off.

To Bullard that means:

Match any lost wages.

Match any lost business.

No questions asked.’

[..]

‘ "That is completely feasible," in service of limiting economic damage, he said. "This is a planned, organized partial shut down of the U.S. economy. We are throttling back output on purpose to meet health guidelines... Transfer income to affected households."

"Call it pandemic relief," Bullard said. "Get transfers to businesses that are affected heavily, and come out on the other side. Identical economy. Produce the same goods as before."‘

Bumping to add this link again for people to sign chng.it/xdqYShMPFy

Link here to this Reuter’s report: mobile.twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1241815692011339777

So can sole trader not apply for the WTC element

Only if they are single or their partner is a non/very low earner. If they live with a partner who works, they will be entitled to very little, unless they have DC or the partner is a very low earner - don't know the thresholds but for those without DC, even full time NMW probably means that as a household, they are entitled to nothing.

Of course, bills still have to be paid and people still need to eat etc. Plus any deferments re mortgage, other debts will still have to be paid back later but the hole in the budget is still there. We should manage as I'll still get paid, but many won't .

DP works in the entertainment industry so his work in the local arena has finished for the foreseeable. He's applying for these alleged thousands of supermarket delivery jobs, but not heard anything yet and obviously there's probably far more people chasing jobs than positions available as all the hospitality and leisure staff are in the same boat too.

I'm not holding my breath for any miracle solution from the government either, but something along the lines of 80% of average earned income from last year's tax return, just to be equal to employees who've lost their jobs, will be an enormous help.

The 80% figure is not 80% of wages, though that was certainly very much what it sounded like. It is 80% of "wage costs", so the employer claims it, but they take their costs out before the employee gets the relief.

How this works is a bit bewildering to be honest, and following the Govt website information doesn't help much.

But I just wanted to put that there, I don't think anyone is getting 80% of their normal take home.

It’s up to a max of £2500 so no won’t strictly be 80% . I would be happy to have that as SE

However, it works out for employees, it's covering 80% of wages for all but the highest paid and is substantially more than the fuck all that's been offered to freelancers and the self employed up to now.

My business went overnight . My outstanding invoices will not be paid as the people that owe me are restaurant etc

So not only do I have no income but I won’t see the money I’m owed that would have tided me over for a bit.

You mostly can’t insure yourself not that this would have counted and that’s why I got a shed load of PPI back

We have to have solidarity with self employed people whether we are self employed or not. The recovery of the economy as a whole- which includes large numbers of self employed people- relies on us all being able to pick up our jobs again when this thing is over.

Here’s the comments section on that petition to see people’s reasons for signing, they need to eat too:

www.change.org/p/self-employed-to-access-full-pay-through-hmrc-through-this-crisis-self-employed-to-access-full-pay-through-hmrc-earnings-through-this-crisis/c?source_location=petition_show

I think expecting the SE to go and do minimum wage jobs is a joke, people's mortgages and outgoings are based on their earnings.

Where is everyone getting the idea that all the initial business initiatives announced apply to corporate entities only. Any definitions I have seen refer to businesses which in this context could be Joe Bloggs t/a Joe Bloggs Plumbing is there a definition of this that specifically excludes sole traders?

Where is everyone getting the idea that all the initial business initiatives announced apply to corporate entities only

The initial business initiatives were relief on rent and rates, help with staff wages and government backed loans/VAT relief.

Many sole traders and freelancers don't have a premises or staff and are often not VAT registered so don't have any of these costs to save.

We're talking about the millions of people who offer labour or a service as a freelancer or small business that earns them an income - eg my DP is a freelance stage hand so builds stages and loads equipment for concerts and festivals for a day rate.

There's also musicians and other performers and theatre workers, cleaners, home hairdressers and beauticians, massage therapists, personal trainers, gym instructors etc, tradespeople who, even if they work on building sites, rather than plumbing, electricians etc in peoples' homes, are often self employed for tax and employment purposes, not through their own choice, but is how the industry runs these days, to save the big house builders being responsible for employment rights. Plus probably many others who have been given no help from the announcements up to now.