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Covid

An Emergency Universal Salary paid to all...

291 replies

PieceOfMaria · 19/03/2020 11:27

Regardless of means.

The idea currently being mooted the government.

I have an issue with this, or at least with elements of it. I don’t need the money. My DHs industry may well be impacted in the long term like everybody’s, but in the short to medium term he can WFH and is being paid in full and that’s pretty unlikely to change due to the nature of his sector. Plus we have ample savings.

Plenty of people including many retired people on comfortable pensions with relatively few outgoings won’t need the money. People who already exist entirely on benefits could argue that they need more money, but they can’t really argue that the CV crisis has left them much worse off than they already were, with the possible exception of those whose children were getting free school meals and now won’t be.

The people who will REALLY REALLY need the money are most self employed people whose work will dry up overnight. Low to middle income working people who were only just managing to keep the plates spinning anyway and now must be feeling sick with worry about their finances. Many household name firms will potentially go under because of this. People who work in small businesses and services that are dependent on footfall and face to face interaction are extremely vulnerable right now and will be losing their jobs as we speak. Airline staff are now facing redundancy or long periods of unpaid leave.

I don’t want any money Boris. Please, please means test this, so there is more to go around for those who are genuinely going to struggle within weeks or even days. I’m not one of them. There will be hundreds of thousand of people who can say hand on heart that they are not one of them either.

OP posts:
Scbchl · 19/03/2020 17:46

Means testing might take too long but there could be a simple opt out option for those who dont feel they need it.

DGRossetti · 19/03/2020 17:47

The costs and manpower associated with means testing would be astronomical.

It also encourages (as this thread shows) a rather moral attitude to peoples circumstances. Just look at the terror of some posters that the wrong sort of claimant might get the benefit.

nutmegbrew · 19/03/2020 17:52

@rossetti 😆

HerRoyalNotness · 19/03/2020 17:58

@lyralalala. I agree.

Plus if people receive it that don’t “need” it, they’re more likely to spend it on non essential items which helps prop up the economy and keep businesses open

Moomin8 · 19/03/2020 18:24

Means testing itself takes time and money. That's the problem.

GatoradeMeBitch · 19/03/2020 18:29

So how would they distribute that, does anyone have an idea? Something like a government issued debit card for each adult on the electoral roll, or whatever system they use to keep track of us all, and only card payments. no cash withdrawals?

lyralalala · 19/03/2020 18:30

Means testing might take too long but there could be a simple opt out option for those who dont feel they need it.

Even that will take staffing, and some sort of form filling, checks that the person sending the "Don't want it" form is the person named etc.

GatoradeMeBitch · 19/03/2020 18:31

Oh, NI numbers, of course...

Food banks would probably still appreciate donations for the people without those.

lyralalala · 19/03/2020 18:32

There shouldn't be a need for food banks if it goes ahead, should there? Isn't that the point of it?

It's not going to cure everything in one go. If it happens it's likely to be a one-off sum to help toward the higher costs at the moment

People will still have debts, zero hour contracts etc going on

SinkGirl · 19/03/2020 18:49

Right now, administering the benefits system costs an absolute fortune especially when you factor in face to face interviews, Job Centre appointments, assessment via form for things like DLA and PIP, tax credits checking, etc. It’s vast. A UBI makes complete sense but unfortunately in this country there are too many people offended by the idea of people getting something for nothing.

After this, unemployment will be much higher and that’s before you factor in companies investing more in automation so that they don’t end up in a situation like this again. Implementing this sooner rather than later is the best solution to a giant brewing problem.

HollowTalk · 19/03/2020 18:49

Though a lump sum would be better than nothing, it won't solve the problem for any longer than a few days. People need something so they can pay their rent and bills. A one off wouldn't do that.

NotDisclosedToday · 19/03/2020 18:55

@rocketman

"do your dc also have a respiratory illness which is made worse by low temperature?

Did you miss the previous poster with a disability mentioning this? Do you imagine they will be the only one whose health affected?

People like you are infuriating, such an extremely limited imagination and lacking in empathy. Can never see any situation past their own nose. Spiteful is the only word I have for it."

Whats wrong with limiting the lifelong unemployed to £250? Thats more than enough for heating.

BonnesVacances · 19/03/2020 18:56

They could send out an online code to claim the money to every person on the electoral roll. This is what they do with tax rebates. Then it's up to the people themselves whether to take it. Agree though that it's in everyone's interests to claim and spend the money to prop up the economy. Even if you spend it on a holiday it'll help the airline and tourist industry. Or on a new TV so we don't lose John Lewis through all this.

NotDisclosedToday · 19/03/2020 18:57

@lyralalala

"You’ve just quadrupled, at least, the cost of setting up and administering it... Giving a set amount of everyone is the quickest, and most cost effective way, to do it"

Hardly. They have records all our bank details and income. Simple computer command can set the appropriate amounts to be transferred into the corresponding accounts. Did you think somebody sits down with a pen and paper and checks everybodies income?

Xenia · 19/03/2020 18:57

A simple thing to help me and some other self employed might be to say we can keep the VAT we would otherwise pass on to the state for the next 6 months.

tryingtoprep · 19/03/2020 19:03

Why do longer-term benefit claimants need less money than the rest of us? Many of them need more since they're on benefits because of health or disability issues. They often have additional needs - adaptions, tools to help them manage their daily lives, and actually sometimes higher heating bills. A family member (retired and with savings) has heart problems and needs the heating more than many (I find it too hot there).

gingersausage · 19/03/2020 19:09

Because @tryingtoprep, their narrow minded idea of long-term benefit claimants is Wayne and Waynetta popping out their sprogs whilst smoking fags and swigging lager. Not the actual reality of people like me who worked and paid tax for 25+ years before becoming disabled or otherwise unable to work.

gingersausage · 19/03/2020 19:11

Pressed post too soon.

They don’t want “those people” getting their grubby little hands on money that should be going to (in their minds) more deserving or worthy causes.

Bloomburger · 19/03/2020 19:17

Nobody will be immune from the economic ramifications of this and we’re in for the long haul. Nothing is stable . We’ll all be more susceptible to serious illness, to theft, fraud, crime , unemployment, to name but a few.
You think you don’t need it? Give it a little while.

^ this.

Innitogether · 19/03/2020 19:22

Could they link it to PAYE? So people still getting paid their full salary wouldn’t qualify? I’m still getting paid (working from home) so don’t need it, plus I’m saving on travel costs and coming into summer the heating won’t need to be on so much. Those of us getting paid as usual could be excused national Insurance contributions instead maybe?

MerryDeath · 19/03/2020 19:27

the whole ideology of a UBI is that everyone gets it. regardless of means or need. it's having a level playing field without the playing field being zero - you don't need it don't worry you pay your taxes. it's a thing of beauty and simplicity.

Bananabixfloof · 19/03/2020 19:57

I'm employed but don't earn enough to pay tax. Or get SSP. Or work enough hours to get working tax credits. People don't seem to believe jobs like mine exist
Same here, I do sometimes pay tax when I've done loads of overtime, but it's not every single payday.
I earn enough to get by but I dont get benefits, and I'm looking at being laid off for as long as this lasts.ok when its over I will be back in my job but I still need money til then.

DameXanaduBramble · 19/03/2020 20:02

@MerryDeath - I totally agree, such a simple, great idea that would work so well.

StillDisappointed · 19/03/2020 20:50

UBI is something to level the playing field and ensure that everyone at least has the same basic standard of living.
Everyone starts off on the same footing.

I can't imagine why anyone would disagree with that, unless they find their fellow citizens unworthy. If you're one of those people, why? Why do you think they don't deserve a basic standard of income?

It's infuriating and upsetting at the same time. 'How dare you suggest something to give those poor people a better quality of life.'

StillDisappointed · 19/03/2020 20:52

@Bananabixfloof That's the exact situation my dad's in. Whilst this is going on he has no work. When everyone is back to normal; going to work, shopping and socialising again, he'll be able to earn a living just as he has done since he was 16 years of age.

He needs support over this slump Sad

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