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To refuse to deliver mail until posties have clean hands?

46 replies

postietoastie · 18/03/2020 23:37

I have been working as normal throughout this pandemic, delivering to every door and delivering every item as usual, following the new guidance on stepping back from the door. I'm glad other delivery companies seem to be following the same protocol.

However, the Royal Mail have not provided us posties with ANY hand sanitiser during this time. Our vans have not been cleaned at all in months. We have disposable gloves, but nobody is being forced to wear them, and most are not. Anyway, once gloves are contaminated, everything they touch will be too. We need a means of washing our hands. It's essential because Covid-19 lives on surfaces; it's not just transferred from in-person contact.

We are young, fit people, very likely to be asymptomatic. We move around all day, scratching our faces and moving hair out of our eyes, adjusting our glasses, touching post, breathing on post as we walk around, touching doorbells and gates and letterboxes, then we handle a surface with the accumulation of all of these germs, and post it right through your grandma's door, who mindlessly picks it up on the other side of the door and these germs transfer onto her hands, when she thinks she's safe inside.

The least the Royal Mail could do would be to provide us with hand sanitiser. They could also make sure as few of us get sick as possible by limiting our exposure to each other. At the moment we're driving around in vans in pairs, spending 2+ hours all together sorting post in the morning and touching surfaces and moving around all morning, then going out and making contact with every door in the land while handling items constantly and without hand washing facilities.

If you don't think I am being unreasonable, can you please apply pressure to Royal Mail through whatever means, to ensure they can find a supplier who can recognise their importance to the efforts to contain this virus. We are still entering sheltered housing and touching door handles. Only today, I had a sheltered housing manager complain that we were NOT going to resident's doors. She said we needed to do it because she was "working from home"!

If you can, another thing you can do is to put hand sanitiser on your door step for a delivery driver, doesn't have to be your postie. You can even try to secure it if you don't want it to be taken but if I know I have a decent supply, I'll want to clean my hands as often as possible when I'm out. At the moment I'm having to ration the frequency that I clean my hands, which is the opposite of what I should be doing in a pandemic!!

I've tried to bring this issue up elsewhere and I'm new to Mumsnet sorry. I just want this to gain as much visibility as possible and to try to make sure as many people as possible are protected as fast as possible. There's an entire day of delivery tomorrow and another potential day of contamination from posties into vulnerable people's homes.

Am I being unreasonable to refuse to deliver the post until proper hygiene and safety measures are implemented by the Royal Mail?

OP posts:
BibbidiBobbidiBooo · 18/03/2020 23:45

I can see why you wouldn't want to deliver the mail because it could be contaminated and hopefully most people are washing their hands after touching the post. I certainly am washing/wiping anything that comes from outside of my home.
RM are disgusting for not providing you ways to clean your hands.

LittleYorkshireLass · 18/03/2020 23:45

I think you may have a point, but then everyone who handles money too - every single retail worker/bank worker/post office worker etc - could make the same complaint. SO I think YABU - a bit.

I have a parcel due tomorrow, and have had a message saying that even though it needs to be signed for, they are just going to leave it on my doorstep (with a GPS tracker for their proof they left it,) and text me to let me know. So they don't risk coming near or touching anyone!

postietoastie · 18/03/2020 23:49

@LittleYorkshireLass they will still be touching your parcel though and then you could pick it up straight away. There's reports that the virus lives on cardboard for hours.

If I was working in retail I'd also be refusing to work without access to hand sanitiser. I think to be honest we should be encouraging that too. If retailers can't protect their workforce and the general public from unnecessary risk then they should not open. Every time I've been to a checkout I've made sure that they have access to it and they have had it.

OP posts:
TARSCOUT · 18/03/2020 23:52

In case you hadn't heard, hand sanitiser if like gold dust! Why not take some responsibility for yourself. Clean your own van out. Stop touching your face with or without gloves, tie your hair up properly/wear a hat. If you wear gloves at all times and don't touch your face, all good. Effectively if they give you hand sanitiser then you sound like you want to use it after you've touched every letterbox? I appreciate you are obviously stressing out but you need to calm down.

ShowYourself · 18/03/2020 23:55

I totally see where you are coming from.
Do you have enough gloves to be able to just wear them all the time, allowing for a change in clothes where needed? This should give a higher level of protection.

ShowYourself · 18/03/2020 23:55

^^ oops. Change of GLOVES not clothes!

postietoastie · 19/03/2020 00:00

@TARSCOUT

  1. In case you haven't looked outside recently, this is not a time to under-react

  2. Some of us have different vans every day! This is part of the issue, we're all sharing things, including personal space, with lots of different people all of the time.

  3. Was I meant to not touch my face at all for 6 hours? You think that's possible while working outside with nose running, glasses on, rain and whatever else? My hair is tied back, but wind is a thing. Not every strand of hair is going to remain secure for 6+ hours.

  4. Even if I don't touch my face for several hours, but I touch doorbells, gates and letterboxes recently touched by someone without clean hands, I then pass those germs on the next letters I post, you can see how it moves on.

This problem cannot be solved by individual effort, if it could be, don't you think I'd do it?

Yes I'd probably use hand sanitiser regularly. We should be cutting post down to a minimum in order to avoid unnecessary cross-contamination like this. You want to roll the dice and hope that your relative isn't the one that picks up the germs from their mail?

OP posts:
HarrietThePi · 19/03/2020 00:00

I'm in retail and we have nothing either. Well there is a toilet at the top of the shop but it's just not feasible to go upstairs and wash your hands after every single transaction in a busy shop. I'm scared but I know that hand sanitizer is so hard to come by so I doubt companies can get a bulk supply of it for their staff. All I can suggest is you do what I'm doing and try to get hold of your own sanitizer and bring it to work with you. Unfortunately I think any left on doorsteps is likely to be taken. I'm not sure how it could be secured.

postietoastie · 19/03/2020 00:04

@HarrietThePi

The local Tesco keep diverting it to walk in customers. With a nationwide lockdown, I don't know what people are going to be needing it for when stuck in their own homes.

Can't we get something going across the country, a bit of goodwill on everyone's behalf? Divert resources to where it's most effective at preventing a spread to a large number of people.

We touch things that come into contact with literally hundreds of people a day. Surely it's a good idea to make sure we of all people have clean hands. We should refuse to work until we can ensure that it's safe for us (for everyone, not just the workers) to do so, otherwise we're part of the problem not part of the solution.

OP posts:
Tinkerbell456 · 19/03/2020 00:07

One good thing. Viruses don’t do well outside of a host body. They die pretty quickly. I understand your concerns. You should be provided with sanitiser and vans should be clean. Sadly, unless you change gloves for each delivery, it’s not going to do much. As someone above said, maybe clean the van yourself? No, you shouldn’t have to but hey, I think doing things that would not normally be our job is going to be increasing while all this goes on. Also, make sure you and your uniform are as clean as possible, hair covered etc. This is a scary time but not a time for panic.

HarrietThePi · 19/03/2020 00:07

You could try and get a spray like that Dettol aerosol spray or some cleaning wipes to wipe over the steering wheel, seat and gear stick of your van before you start your shift? That wouldn't take long to do and would help. I understand you want royal mail to provide it but they're not and we all have to take some initiative. I've been cleaning my till area every shift and I've been disappointed that we've not been provided with anything but it's taking time for everyone to catch up with what's going on and I'm not going to wait around and do nothing while there are measures I can take to protect myself and others.

postietoastie · 19/03/2020 00:12

Sorry I don't know how to edit the post if that's possible but I am wiping the vans down at the start of each shift, but I'm the only one doing it, I have limited cleaning materials, and it's futile when my van share partner is driving the van too. These are men who often pee in bottles in the back of the vans, then don't wash their hands... getting them to understand why that's an issue was already difficult for me. I am not going to be able to change the situation nationwide unless this gets addressed nationwide.

OP posts:
Donkeytail · 19/03/2020 00:17

As far as I am aware there is no hand sanitiser. It's not just the general public that can't find it businesses can't find it either. My local hospital is in short supply. It just isn't there to purchase. Like someone said your best bet is probably to try and find a bottle yourself.

LittleRootie · 19/03/2020 00:20

YANBU and right to highlight it where you can. Have you raised it with the CWU?

thelittlefox · 19/03/2020 00:22

I've given my postman my last bottle of sanitiser. He is nearing retirement and had cancer last year. I cannot believe how little Royal Mail are protecting their workforce.

Apart from the risk to him, he has the potential to be one powerful source of infection!

HarrietThePi · 19/03/2020 00:34

Hopefully the others will start to be a bit more hygienic now the school closures have been announced. My colleagues aren't taking it seriously either. Have you talked to your boss about it? I have been washing my front door, the knocker and letterbox but I know not everyone will be doing that. If I manage to get hold of some sanitizer I will try and give one to my postman but it's so hard to get right now.

EmmaBridgewater20 · 19/03/2020 00:38

This is awful! Union? Do you have? Are you allowed?

Sonichu · 19/03/2020 00:52

Hand sanitizer is as rare as rocking horse shit incase you hadn't noticed op!! Lot us are having to work with the public in very close quarters without it too 🙄

postietoastie · 19/03/2020 01:15

That's the thing though, we are delivering junk mail for businesses that are currently closed. Nothing whatsoever has changed. I know in emergencies we have to make do but do we really need to take this many avoidable risks with our health and the public's health? Surely we should be limiting mail to essentials. The Royal Mail and CWU won't take action because they see the mail as a business not a service.

OP posts:
postietoastie · 19/03/2020 01:23

@EmmaBridgewater20 the CWU have offered us up as an emerging service which is honourable but there seems to be no concern for our welfare and our role in spreading germs without good hygiene. We have a good infrastructure but it needs to be adjusted quickly and resources diverted. Definitely a good time for the Royal Mail to be renationalised and for the government to have a role in directing us to where we can best help, and maybe they can secure some hand gel for other key workers like supermarket workers.

OP posts:
postietoastie · 19/03/2020 01:24

*emergency! Must sleep..!

OP posts:
DaisyDreaming · 19/03/2020 02:22

Lots of companies can’t get hand sanitiser even if they want to

Fluffybutter · 19/03/2020 06:55

Agree with your post but not about the “young” bit .
My stepdad is a postie in his 60’s and has a heart condition.
My actually postie isn’t someone I’d call young either

Cheerbear23 · 19/03/2020 07:01

I agree with you, this occurred to me yesterday.

devildeepbluesea · 19/03/2020 07:03

Our local health centre has run out of hand sanitizer so I'm afraid I feel that their need is greater than yours.