To refuse to deliver mail until posties have clean hands?

[postietoastie]

I have been working as normal throughout this pandemic, delivering to every door and delivering every item as usual, following the new guidance on stepping back from the door. I'm glad other delivery companies seem to be following the same protocol.

However, the Royal Mail have not provided us posties with ANY hand sanitiser during this time. Our vans have not been cleaned at all in months. We have disposable gloves, but nobody is being forced to wear them, and most are not. Anyway, once gloves are contaminated, everything they touch will be too. We need a means of washing our hands. It's essential because Covid-19 lives on surfaces; it's not just transferred from in-person contact.

We are young, fit people, very likely to be asymptomatic. We move around all day, scratching our faces and moving hair out of our eyes, adjusting our glasses, touching post, breathing on post as we walk around, touching doorbells and gates and letterboxes, then we handle a surface with the accumulation of all of these germs, and post it right through your grandma's door, who mindlessly picks it up on the other side of the door and these germs transfer onto her hands, when she thinks she's safe inside.

The least the Royal Mail could do would be to provide us with hand sanitiser. They could also make sure as few of us get sick as possible by limiting our exposure to each other. At the moment we're driving around in vans in pairs, spending 2+ hours all together sorting post in the morning and touching surfaces and moving around all morning, then going out and making contact with every door in the land while handling items constantly and without hand washing facilities.

If you don't think I am being unreasonable, can you please apply pressure to Royal Mail through whatever means, to ensure they can find a supplier who can recognise their importance to the efforts to contain this virus. We are still entering sheltered housing and touching door handles. Only today, I had a sheltered housing manager complain that we were NOT going to resident's doors. She said we needed to do it because she was "working from home"!

If you can, another thing you can do is to put hand sanitiser on your door step for a delivery driver, doesn't have to be your postie. You can even try to secure it if you don't want it to be taken but if I know I have a decent supply, I'll want to clean my hands as often as possible when I'm out. At the moment I'm having to ration the frequency that I clean my hands, which is the opposite of what I should be doing in a pandemic!!

I've tried to bring this issue up elsewhere and I'm new to Mumsnet sorry. I just want this to gain as much visibility as possible and to try to make sure as many people as possible are protected as fast as possible. There's an entire day of delivery tomorrow and another potential day of contamination from posties into vulnerable people's homes.

Am I being unreasonable to refuse to deliver the post until proper hygiene and safety measures are implemented by the Royal Mail?

Because of greedy profiteers and people who are stockpiling, many places are unable to get hand sanitiser.

I sympathise with your plight I really do but it may not be the fault of your company sadly. However vans and equipment should be getting cleaned regularly and they should be making that a priority, as should your colleagues.

I agree that this is a perfect way to spread a virus - it’s the modern day equivalent of a bolt of cloth arriving in a village full of fleas carrying the plague...

What REALLY annoys me is the amount of junk mail (unfranked/unaddressed) that Royal Mail are still circulating. So the postie opens my gate, lifts the lid of my post box and drops in the mail; I go out to get it and it’s a leaflet for a sodding sofa company FGS If I catch the virus from that, I’ll be cross

@postietoastie the union have said to report it to them.

I’m wondering whether to post my mum’s Mother’s Day card?

Okay, put there is no hand sanitizer.

Hospitals are struggling to have enough, there are higher priorities than posties.

My ex (eurgh, horrible twat) is a teacher, the school doesn’t have any hand sanitiser or soap as their usual suppliers are all out, due to the shop situation they can’t buy enough. When people do bring it in for everyone to use it gets stolen straight away. Or in one case poured all over the floor in the toilets.

I work for a courier company (not as a driver). PHE are saying the virus can't be transmitted by parcels, so our drivers are doing as PP said and leaving parcels on people's doorsteps after making their presence known.

The company have done their best with ways to protect them, asking them to wear gloves, wash as regularly as possible and clean their vans but we can't buy hand sanitizer, we've been trying for weeks! They also can't do much more than they have been doing. Their jobs are public facing by nature, there is no virtual or online way to move a box. A large number of them are self employed (and even those that aren't only get SSP). If they get sick and can't work, they don't earn anything.

It's easy to assume that no one is trying to protect you, but have you actually spoken to management about it?

Ffs, why aren't the union kicking off about this?

This was an H&S risk long before the pandemic, workers with nowhere to wash their hands, sharing vehicles, visiting every house and business in the country. You'd be at risk of every bug going, sickness absence must go through the roof every time there's flu/noro/winter vomiting bug.

I used to do a job that involved visiting clients at home. We were issued with unlimited amounts of sanitiser and anti-bac wipes, plastic overshoes and given carte blanche to insist on meeting in the community if their homes were too minging to visit safely.

There was a whole page in the risk assessment to cover risks "arising from the home environment", covering everything including sharps, pets, trip hazards and general muck and squalour.

I cannot believe that a huge employer like Royal Mail has got away with being so cavalier about this for so long.

How do people feel about canvassers still knocking on doors?
I spoke to a man last night, he says he has to work by booking appointments face to face or he doesn't get paid.

Yes you should have hand sanitiser

Absolutely

H&S should be doing what they’re meant to do and act

No idea how you mobilise them

@LakieLady the union have told them to report it to them.

Unfortunately they have some very weak managers.

for what its worth folks - IF its not raining - pick up post put it into tray (where it cant blow away) & place outside in sunlight fresh air, wash hands, if at all practical
By the way if you have to go outside (if someone in family is vulnerable) place coat & outer wear outside to air too (if you have garden) wash hands have shower

I absolutely agree NHS staff should be first. Then anyone else in contact with general public. This is just shockingly disorganised. The hand sanitiser hasn't been used up, it's been hoarded. Where is it?

Anyway, I've called in today and the only adjustment they have made is that I can do the 'backshift' so that I personally don't have to share a van or mix with people in the office this morning. I am still very concerned about everyone else though. This isn't time for individual measures, but I will take as many as I can to do my part. Not enough is being done at the top. I am currently considering bringing in my giant thermos so I can wash my hands on the go.

All junk mail should be stopped for the time being. Deliveries should drop to twice a week max.

Could you mix a weak solution of bleach to rinse your hands? Also I find if I wear rubber gloves, the marigold type, it stops me touching my face.

All non essential jobs should be stopped now. I have just had a gas and electric meter reader at my door WTF I do online readings. anyway.

I was going to suggest a thermos and a box of soap leaves.

Issue is that hand sanitiser is so hard to get hold of right now, can you bring your old anti bac spray to use in the van if you're changing vans daily?
Use the gloves provided, change them regularly and don't touch your face. After opening post or deliveries I've been washing my hands just in case, that's an easy way of keeping the public safe.

After opening post or deliveries I've been washing my hands just in case, that's an easy way of keeping the public safe.

That's what I've been doing.

The postal staff really should be issued with hand sanitiser. I'll see if I can get some and will give it to the postman (or leave it out for them).

Anti bac is no good for a virus, soap is the next best thing to wash it away.

I have also been disposing of the packaging and envelopes and washing my hands for at least 20 seconds.

All the experts the BBC has interviewed have been saying letters and parcels are a very unlikely source of the infection and we won't catch it that way.

This virus is not different from other viruses in that way, and has anyone ever thought they caught any illness from handling post before? I've never known that to be the case.

Hand sanitizer only works up to 4 applications, after that it's useless. That is information our company received from the health office and w.h.o

So unless you are going to be actually washing your hands after every fourth delivery then it wont realistically make much difference for you handling post.

I do agree that those sorting it should be provided with gloves or sanitizer perhaps but then the same would apply really