Is this a cull?

[teacherspet]

As a vulnerable person I feel that the government are saying that they want to protect us, but are doing absolutely nothing. We are not allowed to self isolate unless we have symptoms, we are expected to go to work amongst people who have no idea whether they are infected because nobody is being tested. By the time they decide we should self isolate many of us will already be infected.

Don’t be so stupid ffs. Sick of the left wingers saying shit like this. Shows your intelligence

No.

It does feel a bit like it.

I can’t understand the logic in measures like, for example, insisting schools are staying open, if they really do want to slow the spread of this virus.

well if it's a cull it's not a very good one.

Older people vote Tory, the Tories want to stay in government. The economy is being trashed to keep older people safe.

The overwhelming majority of people who will have minimal adverse health outcomes from this infection are going to be living with the fall out for a very long time.

And still people are moaning constantly that there isn't a magic wand that will make it all okay for them.

But sure ... it's a cull

If the govt wanted to "cull", they would close the schools and get the nations grandparents on childcare. The govt have done the opposite to try to save them.

No it isn't a cull. So spreading this stupidity.

Yes, it's a wonderful opportunity for a brutal, cold populist regime.

It is not the government operating a cull, it is Mother Nature! People my age remember the days before flu vaccines, when thousands of frail elderly died of flu each winter.

The young generation in the west have spent their whole lives in an era of vaccines and antibiotics, and are not used to the harsh realities of biology - which are a fact of life to people in the third world, who have to cope with malaria, TB, ebola, Lhassa fever, and HIV.
Nobody lives for ever. The frail and elderly are going to die sooner rather than later, and at present some of the “would have been” dementia, stroke or cancer deaths will be covid 19 deaths instead.

Many of these people would not have been offered ITU or ventilation anyway, for an ordinary chest infection, as there would be no prospect of them surviving it and it would just prolong their discomfort.
I am not being callous - I’m a pensioner myself, and a retired doctor, and I know that if my local ITU gets overwhelmed, I would be left out in favour of a younger patient with a better chance of recovery.

the number of deaths from this globally = 6,509

globally !!!!

Yeah, it's a cull.

As a pp said, there is no advise for the vulnerable to self-isolate, obviously if they wish to

Pretty much every comment made directly by a government rep that I've heard about over 70s self-isolating has included 'and those with underlying conditions'. There is a lot of scaremongering on social media - ignore it.

I can’t understand the logic in measures like, for example, insisting schools are staying open, if they really do want to slow the spread of this virus

I think in Spain, people went to the coast and spread it further?
I can imagine that many people in the UK would carry on their lives, taking children to soft play, to visit elderly people, to all kinds of places. So IMO, keeping schools open is minimising contact at the moment. Once other places start to close, and people have nowhere to go, schools will follow.

@phonelock some people's employers have said that unless they have symptoms they cannot self isolate or they will be disciplined

Perhaps the word cull in the title is not the correct word, but I would have thought that anybody reading my op would have realised is comes from a place of vulnerability and fear.
I haven't seen where it says that you can self isolate currently, I have only seen where it says that this will be happening in 20 days I think I saw. As I said before my company has said that you must come in unless you are told to self isolate.

Nw you think it’s not because the thread didn’t go your way.

From a recent Torygraph article.There are people who believe this is a way to solve the social care problem...

The Telegraph journalist who wrote that article doesn't sound like a fan of the government to me:

"Boris’s dastardly Brexit plan: keep stringing ’em along until it happens."

"Boris Johnson has cravenly abdicated his responsibility for airport expansion."

"Those of us who cry out for the stability and predictability of the progressively minded centre-Right are unlikely to want to throw in our lot with these forces.But a return to the glory days of Gladstone, Asquith and even Lloyd George, when the Liberal Party seemed effortlessly to bridge the Left/Right divide–now there’s a thought."

Perhaps the word cull in the title is not the correct word

You should get it amended, it’s an absolutely disgusting word to use when talking about human life. You ought to be ashamed of yourself & all the other idiots agreeing with you.

The economy is being trashed to keep older people safe.

That has to be the most utterly selfish thing I've ever read!!!

So it's ok to let everyone over 70 die, just so you don't have to pay a bit extra for your beer? The economy is important, but so are people's lives.

Unbelievable.

@CorianderLord How do employers know if you have a cough or a temperature? They are not going to come round to your house to take your temperature. Just lie.

And the UK government has repeatedly says it wants most people to get the virus. That is why things have not been in place to stop it spreading. It wants you to get the virus and accepts that means half a million people will die (using the government's own figures).

OP you are being attacked here because there is a lot of people who seem to still not understand that if most people get this virus as the government has planned, half a million people will die.

Yes of course that could be seen as a cull. It will certainly reduce the pension and disability bill.

is comes from a place of vulnerability and fear

^so your response is to spread more fear? Can you not understand how unhelpful & frankly irresponsible that is?

Do you feel any better now? Would you have felt better if we'd all said "yeah it's a cull. The evil-fucking-bastard-Tories want to kill you and probably your kids & your granny too"?

What is the point of these myriad idiot threads?

Why did the Scottish National Party MP on Question Time (Thurs evening) say that the SNP gave their full support to the government's coronavirus action plan? Are the SNP in on it as well?

"My work have said that unless you have been advised to self isolate you must come in. This means I am expected to be amongst people who could well be infectious and not even know it. The vulnerable are definitely not being looked after."

teacherspet

I won't comment on the idea of a cull, but I do agree with you that the non-elderly working but vulnerable are not being well-served atm. Between the rhetoric of 'its only people with underlying conditions' - thanks! - and unsympathetic employers who don't seem to have an understanding that some of their employees are at higher risk than others...well, it's not been very comforting, put it that way.

When those same vulnerable workers are in insecure or low paid work which they cannot do from home, and do not have the luxury of financial support from, say, a high earning spouse, there's a level of anxiety and worry that the well just aren't dealing with and don't understand.

I am lucky enough to have some savings and am leaning towards taking unpaid leave until schools finally close. That's a very privileged position. Many people who are vulnerable due to health aren't in that position.

I hear you, and I understand the anxiety. I am consistently hearing from people with underlying health conditions how damaging they've found the way people have been talking about them, quite callously at times. It can lead to wondering if this is all deliberate.

That has to be the most utterly selfish thing I've ever read!!!

No because, I & pretty much everyone I know is willing to make the sacrifices to protect people & we are already. To keep the NHS functioning at some sort of semi-acceptable level, to try to protect HCPs who are going to have such a truly shit time. Many of us are HPCs, many of our elderly & vulnerable people are HPCs. Because we have a civic responsibility & basic moral duty to our fellow humans.

I'd be PMSL about a few pennies on the price of beer if it weren't so gobsmackingly irresponsible & selfish. It's about people losing their jobs (my BIL & sister already, my daughter very soon), their livelihoods (my parents), their homes (my sister, my daughter when she loses her job), their businesses. It's about unemployment, homelessness, ill health caused by lack of medical & social care. The country can't run on thin air.

And we're doing it because it's a price worth paying.

Would that be the case if it were a fucking cull?

It's nature doing the cull not the government. Locusts have decimated crops far and wide, bush fires have devastated flora and fauna in Australia, flooding has caused misery to many and humans have unleashed a deadly disease unwittingly. Nothing to do with our government.

Look human population is huge so war, plague or pestilence mean our numbers drop off. This happens to all animal populations. Personally I'd rather it's disease killing us off than war, where human killing human is just barbaric.

Yes it's shit, but we need to pull together and do our best. It's impossible to know which is the right way, which is the wrong way.

For context I have two family members who are doctors, one a respiratory consultant, one a geriatrician. One whole heartedly supports the current uk approach, one the European model. I think it shows that top scientists, have different hypothesis, and currently we don't know which model is the best one to follow, because the hypothesis hasn't been tested out.

What we must do is keep this in perspective, try and ignore the scaremongering and stop panicking.

on a personal level I'm crapping myself...accept those no toilet paper

OK so the virus is here. Most people are going to get it . The issue now is how it is managed such that when vulnerable people get it there is more chance they will have access to medical support.

The largest group who are at risk have been identified and plans are afoot. We are all going to have to pitch in and help.

If are high risk then you are at liberty to say you are experiencing symptoms and have been advised to self-isolate. They are only testing those who present at hospital in a serious condition- so employers will be none the wiser and you will keep yourself safe.

If you are vulnerable but have a family then you are also at liberty to stop them mixing with others (as above) or self isolate away from them if possible.