Why Italy?

[R2221]

I mean, why is Italy so badly affected? Is it because CV just started there in Europe or is it just a matter of time before every other country goes through the same cycle??

One of the theories I read about was that in China, probably due to the way the country is governed, people tend to do as they are told. So when travelling out of area was banned people stayed put, so the virus was pretty much contained to specific areas.

The theory went on to say that Italians tend to do what they want and dislike being told what to do and where to go, so they continued travelling about and spreading the virus.

Disclaimer: This is not my opinion, just what I read.

@TheCanterburyWhales Oh that type of book!

Please stop spreading incorrect information about Italy's Chinese community! It is inflammatory and frankly dangerous to generalise about racial groups in this way, as we've already seen from that poor student getting beaten up.

Patient zero has in fact been identified as a man from Munich with Chinese work colleagues who had a meeting with patient 1. Unfortunately patient 1 (Mattia) was a superspreader who infected large numbers including hospital staff and patients undetected for ages until diagnosed. I live near Prato (Europe's biggest Chinese community) and numbers are actually low here.
Cases were/are also very concentrated geographically, putting huge pressure on healthcare in certain areas rather than spreading the burden.

Also kissing as a greeting is not common in much of Italy (including where I live), people aren't constantly touching pasta with their hands, and Italian homes tend to be extremely clean. Please stop with the uninformed stereotypes.

There are indeed lots of reasons why Italy is suffering especially but the main issue seems to be timing, we were hit first in Europe and were unprepared.Other countries being hit later have the opportunity to learn lessons.

Italy is not a special case. We are on the same path, just a week or so behind. I really hope we will see Italy fall off their exponential curve soon, because they are taking measures to isolate and stop the spread. I don't think the death rate is massively different from country to country. I think the testing rate is different country to country, and the countries with the better death rates have found most of the cases.

Germany are probably really only at the same point as we are, possibly a day or so behind. Their cases look higher, but they are probably, if anything, slightly lower. They will be at the point, as in Italy at the beginning and as with us now, where the weakest and most frail are the first to reach the hospitals.

@LeeMiller well said!

@LeeMiller

@LeeMiller

Milan is the headquarters of a huge fashion industry and many clothes are made in China? Italy has the oldest population in Europe?

I give the Italians great credit for the ethical way in which they handled the situation. I was there for the two weeks in which the cases exploded and saw how people gradually came to understand what this really meant. They handled everything with class and grit. This is what we all must do, around the world

I predict that at Christmas, there will be a huge spike in babies being born. All these people self isolating at home, bored, worried and looking for comfort...

I also read that it was due to the large number of Chinese immigrants in the Lombardy region who work in the fashion factories who travelled back to China in large numbers for the spring festival. Because it takes a few days for symptoms to show they went back to work unaware of any virus and they work close together in factories and it started to spread.

@BritWifeinUSA please rtft, the link to the Chinese community in Italy has been debunked with a link to the relevant article upthread. Italy's patient 0 has been indentified, it was a German man visiting from Munich. Patient 1 was an Italian superspreader who unfortunately wasn't diagnosed for ages. They have done a lot of work tracing it back. It was nothing to do with the Italian Chinese community.

@BrexpatInSwitzerland, @TheCanterburyWhales
@meuca thanks, I tried!

@BrexpatInSwitzerland, yes that's what I heard too. The Chinese community in Italy weren't to know though, so we shouldn't blame them.

And again....patient zero was German, patient 1 was an Italian super spreader.

If it had been the Chinese community, which it wasn't, the chronology would have been different due to incubation periods etc and the city of Prato would be decimated. As it was, many of the Chinese community in Prato self-isolated anyway. Probably because of racist twats rather than Corona though.

Italian here... Italy has tested over 100k people, as opposed to 30k in the UK, so that is a factor. I also agree about the fact it was detected late. Kissing/hugging probably a small factor too.

Lol at making pizza/pasta. I don't know a single Italian person who makes pizza or pasta from scratch

@R2221 I actually did have a bloody good cry this morning. We were talking about how elderly people without families or internet would cope with months of isolation, and it tipped me in to a mini sobbing meltdown. It actually helped to admit out loud how bloody frightened I am.

So in summary basically Italy was bloody unlucky that they had a super spreader patient 1

I thought we were four weeks behind I’m sure that was what was reported a week or so ago but it changing rapidly

Looking at numbers confirmed the end of February they had similar cases confirmed it more deaths

I guess an ageing population, more being tested, the virus hit there before here, more smokers, the weather

London always has a high number of tourists from China but it hasn’t inpact s London the same way as it has northern Italy yet

A Chinese colleague told me that many fashion houses in Italy use Chinese migrant workers to make luxury handbags so they can charge a premium for items Made in Italy and that is how it spread. It sounds plausible to me, all it takes is one person.

There are also a fair amount of printers in Italy...

Italy had the virus long before they realised. Then when schools were closed to try contain it (back when it was just in Lombardy) people decided to go on holiday to other parts of Italy. That’s why the quarantines needed the police / army to be enforced later on as nobody was listening - until people started dying. People in Spain have done very similar.

This is probably why the UK CMO doesn’t believe school closures would work - because they haven’t so far in any part of Europe

I think as a pp said it was the perfect storm for Italy sadly. I also wonder if smoking is a factor too, I know people smoke in other countries, but I noticed in Italy lots of the older generation, particular seemed to smoke a fair bit. So maybe weaker lungs in the people who have died?

These pearls of wisdom are exactly why it makes sense to ask technical, scientific questions on a forum like this one!

"They use thier hands lots - making pasta
And pizza etc "

Right, because you prepare your food with... what? Your feet? You order it and have it made by other people who use... what parts of their body to make it? Or is your food entirely machine-made?

" being honest lots of the more populated areas are dirtier - you only have to look at the videos of the very densely populated flats / apartments on you tube to see this and how close people are to each other"

What Italian populated areas would be dirtier than what? The virus struck Lombardy, which is one of the most advanced regions in Europe.

Your source for this statement is... videos on youtube of densely populated flats? Surely a scientific, representative and fake-news-proof source of information.