COVID-19 nursery closure and refund

[justthisreally]

I have 3DCs in a private nursery. A staff told me today that they are getting themselves ready for the closure in the event of government directive. I asked if parents will be asked to pay for the period of closure. She said that all depends on what their head office decides when the time comes.

I'm self employed. And if I need to look after my DCs, I worry that I will have no income but have this huge nursery cost?

AIBU to expect my private nursery to not charge (including refund for the fees paid in advance) in case of closure?

@oblada I read that too but there’s no information anywhere on where parents stand on this ......

Yes it's quite brief. Just says parents wouldn't pay but no real discussion on it. Surely if there was a normal and enforceable contractual term nurseries could use to get full fees it would be mentioned there...

The thing is maybe parents to legally “have” to pay, and would nurseries go to the hassle of chasing the numerous parents through the hassle of small claims courts for those that don’t and then enforce baliff for those that don’t/can’t pay after that?

BUT if parents don’t pay will the nurseries still be open after the virus has died down and will those parents be able to get places for subsequent children with their history of non-payment and will the nurseries that survive just put their fees up for everyone to recover the loss?

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/300210

They’ll all go bust and you’ll be paying double for one.

Try and think of it in a long term way.

But then with this panic buying no one is.

What you need is to all group together as service users and sit down with your nursery, work our what’s enough to keep them alive, spread the cost between you as much as you can afford and maybe some people will pay more and others less. It’s called team work.

But no. You’ll stop paying. Nursery will go bust and then everyone will be angry.

What’s happened to the collective? Is everything in this country just a “FUCK YOU IM ALRIGHT”

my business may go under, the support from my loyal clients has been AMAZING.

Do people not understand how economies work. And this will be very short term. So if you all get together have a meeting you could save a business, save jobs, save yourself money if you need to.

It might be worth posting your query in the Legal section, OP

@aroundtheworldyet

I did not say we wouldn’t pay, I said we couldn’t & we would have to take our child out & lose the 2 month deposit. Also that we run our own business & are very aware how economies work but we will not be looking to place our child back in a nursery after this debacle.

The nursery was the one who informed by email full fees are payable with no discussion. If they had offered a meeting that might have been nice.

From my experience so far which is not very long, nurseries can do as they please. Charge extortionate deposits, charge some parents more than others.

Just wondering how they’re the one business who will still be making all their money just to ensure they don’t go under - and yet if posts by nursery staff are true but even paying the staff from those fees.

@schmeschme
I wasn’t aiming it at you at all! It was just a general observation that no one looks for a wider solution to all help each other out. Supporting people in times of need.

People complain about nursery’s all the time. But they seem to always be on the edge of going under. I don’t see people making millions out of it.

Anyway, you’re lucky you don’t have to put your kids back in. Not many people are as lucky as you.

@aroundtheworldyet

I said was we won’t be putting him back in - because we won’t be able to afford it. It will not be a choice that we are lucky to make.

It would be nice to see the nursery offering support for the parents in times of need so it was a two way thing rather than only the parents taking the hit.

I agree the nurseries should also be offering help. It was more of a general point that we could save everyone pretty much if we all chipped in. Including the companies.

But it’s all batten down the hatches.

I am currently feeling very sad about the attitude of our country.

People complain about nursery’s all the time. But they seem to always be on the edge of going under. I don’t see people making millions out of it.

People are making plenty of money. Their ability to do so and the resilience of the business are not really related. Just look at the airlines.

My view is that government should be offering these businesses a financial package when they force them to close. Asking people to pay for a service they aren't receiving when they themselves may be on reduced incomes is not a viable solution.

I've just looked at the companies house filings for Bright Horizons nursery and their reported profits in 2018 were £4.5m and in 2017 £12m

That's a huge amount of money (unless I'm misreading their accounts) and if it's right, let's not all pretend that every nursery is just scraping by (agree that some are)

The contract would be frustrated, so nothin would be payable.

Unfortunately, if you want a place you'd probably have to pay. I wouldn't bother, as the nursery would likely o bust unless it laid off staff - another nursery will come up and staff will come back.

I don't know why staff would be paid, the day the nursery closes they are all laid off one way or another. Can't pay staff for 4+ months just doing nothing.

I have a lot of nurseries amongst our clients. Some are struggling and some are doing just fine. Just like many small to medium businesses. The bigger nursery chains seem to do quite well.
At the end of the day nobody is forcing nursery owners to do that, they must find something in it. Again like any other business.

Frustration of contract is pretty much the word I was looking for in the midst of all the points I was making.

@Nikhedonia yeah I was wondering about Bright Horizons ..

The thing is, those millions may not pay staff fees and rents for more than a month or so without running out ... but I agree it’s a profitable business model. I was paying over 20k a year for my child at a BH. That’s more than some staff were probably getting paid! How is that ok?
I don’t know if BH is a franchise model or not.. perhaps there is money in each individual nursery too. Not sure if BH the parent company would be bailing out the individual nurseries. They may help but they won’t be liable for individual salaries.

@pinksauce @oblada

Frustration of Contract! Thank you both - at least we know have some info when we speak with the nursery.

We would be happy to pay some sort of retainer to help the nursery - we do have to all try to pull together & get through this as best we can. However from the tone of their email regarding the fees I can imagine legal terms might be necessary.

It would be an absolute disgrace if they charged fees and didn't pay staff, how would that ever be acceptable?!

I think clareblue's argument re infectious disease has some ground for a week or 2 but beyond that I'd definitely argue frustration of contract as it would never have been in the mind of either party that one party would continue to pay full pay for 2-3 months. That is just downright unreasonable. As for a retainer fee - yes but they need to be reasonable: they don't currently have a service they can provide and which can be retained so even half seems unreasonable.

'Full pay' - means 'full fees' (in the context of no service being provided)

Frustration of contract is where a subsequent law passed makes the main purpose of the contract brain impossible to do - so the contract essentially no longer obliges either side to do their obligations.

I will back up what others have said though - if the nursery survives, they don't have to offer you a place. On the other hand, if only 50% play the nursery may close and you'll have reserved nothing.

The nursery emailed today confirming that they will be charging in full in case of the forced closure. And they reiterated T&C - in exceptional circumstances such as severe weather condition, the nursery will not be held responsible and not issue refunds.

Very worried and upset.

@justthisreally I’m with you - I feel sick with the thought of this. Sending hugs x

Pinksauce - frustration of contract is when the contract has become impossible to fulfill due to something that was not in the mind/expectations of the parties when contracting. It has nothing to do with new legislation!!

Justthisreally - their clause can maybe work for a week or two but I'm very confident they cannot enforce this over 1/2/3 months. This would be completely ludicrous.

@oblada

Our nursery said either we pay or we loose the place & they keep our 2 month deposit.

So with no legal info or government info on this we look to loose £2k in the coming weeks & our nursery place. It’s awful

Schmeschme - I'd challenge them on it. Fees for a week or 2 yes fine. But for a couple of months under a lock down no - that's just pure and simple frustration of contract!