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Original poster

COVID-19 nursery closure and refund

178 replies

justthisreally · 13/03/2020 22:55

I have 3DCs in a private nursery. A staff told me today that they are getting themselves ready for the closure in the event of government directive. I asked if parents will be asked to pay for the period of closure. She said that all depends on what their head office decides when the time comes.

I'm self employed. And if I need to look after my DCs, I worry that I will have no income but have this huge nursery cost?

AIBU to expect my private nursery to not charge (including refund for the fees paid in advance) in case of closure?

OP posts:
oblada · 14/03/2020 19:51

Kapten - but if the nursery shuts, the parents have to take unpaid leave to look after the kids... how and why would they they have to pay the nursery/your wages?
Many small businesses will struggle but asking clients to pay for a service that isn't being provided isn't a fair approach either.

MyBlueMoonbeam · 14/03/2020 19:55

Nurseries will have to pay their employees of course but there won’t be any more overtime or bank staff and bank staff are usually a significant minority of staff at any given period so I would expect the nursery’s costs to fall actually.

Wrong nursery staff in Ireland are being laid off - my workplace is paying holiday next week then we are signing on.

Owner is very concerned for our parents who have to find & pay for alternative care & is not charging parents for the closure - she still has insurance utilities & a mortgage to pay - difficult situation for all concerned 😣

KaptenKrusty · 14/03/2020 19:56

I do understand and if I had a child I’d be bloody pissed off too.

Big I guess that’s it then - we close down and I’m left unable to pay the rent and will possibly end up without a job as a result unfortunately if the closure was for a long time. Which I’m very upset about tbh obviously

I don’t know what the answer is

TruculentandFarty · 14/03/2020 19:58

I guess you have to ask yourself, which is worse, paying for a month of childcare without no income or losing your childcare. If they don't get pay from parents then they can't pay staff and the staff/owners will either have to absorb the cost or find a different job and the childcare will close.

If you lose your childcare then good luck finding another one when some will close because of the economic implications of this virus. (I don't mean that snarky, I really am wishing those who lose their childcare good luck)

KaptenKrusty · 14/03/2020 19:59

It does piss me off that so many on here we’re going mental trying to get the schools and nurseries shut - not giving a crap about the consequences of the people who work there.

I do understand the reasoning of course but am sad and worried about what a closure means for myself and co workers

TruculentandFarty · 14/03/2020 20:01

sorry, I meant good luck finding a place for your kids when others are looking because theirs closed.

StatisticallyChallenged · 14/03/2020 20:02

A large amount of our clients work in a sector which is already switching to WFH around here. Most of them will be able to continue to do that to some extent and so probably keep going income wise. We're not expecting it all but it might let us keep the hard to replace staff - managers, senior practitioners who have been with us years and are really core.

As you can see from this thread views range from "claim damages" through to "pay 100%" so whatever we do is wrong.

I'm going to check out of this thread in a minute as to be frank the anxiety of all of this is really getting to me. We have scared staff who we are trying to reassure, insurance not paying out, worried parents and we're just trying to do our best in unforeseen and unpredictable circumstances where we have very little control. Threads like this don't help as it just causes more stress and whatever approach we suggest care providers are being told they're wrong. We know we're between a rock and a hard place

oblada · 14/03/2020 20:09

Yes it is difficult but charging for a service you do not provide is wrong.

WFH is not an option with a toddler running around, at least not for both parents or in a single household parent.

Truculent - so you would want me to pay nursery, when I am on unpaid leave, so that their staff do not have to be on unpaid leave? Seriously?

Tbh if my nursery struggles to keep basic things running and asked the parents to pitch in I will. But I would be very cross if they tried to charge me.

StatisticallyChallenged · 14/03/2020 20:12

Did you miss the part where we are an after school club? No toddlers.

Call it wrong all you like. I don't care. I care about my staff and making sure they can feed their families. I care about our loyal clients who rely on us to work and will need us to be there after this is all over.

And it's a retainer fee which will give the clients who pay it priority for spaces - as realistically when we reopen it will be with reduced capacity. So it's not actually a fee for nothing.

oblada · 14/03/2020 20:21

Ah that's true, forgot as the thread was about nurseries. Still some parents can't WFH with some 5-6yrs old. I know my friend couldn't WFH with her son until v recently and he's nearly 9...
whilst your intentions are good (although that generosity isn't just yours but that of the parents clearly...) it just isn't realistic I think for ppl to pay for services they don't receive. But if you like that system make sure you follow it through and continue to pay or part pay for any service you would normally receive but cannot receive any more temporarily.

MuddlingThrough1724 · 14/03/2020 20:43

Our nursery are taking temperatures on the way in the door from monday. Anything raised means child sent home for 7 days. Nursery have said we won't pay however. I suspect this will be something that varies massively from nursery to nursery, especially since there is no specific government advice on closures at the moment.

Original poster
justthisreally · 14/03/2020 21:32

Thank you for all the comments - most helpful.

So when there is no specific clause on this kind of situation in the contract, it looks like there is no legal guideline or consumer law of some sort to address this conflict (?). And all will be just case by case..(?)

So the worse case for me would be the nursery charging fees during a long term closure and even after getting loans, when I physically couldn't find more money to help them keep the business they may take a legal action against me to recover the unpaid fees..

I will update once I hear more from our DCs' nursery on closure and the terms. It would be great if others can also update here with how your nurseries are responding. Just to compare..

Thank you again.

OP posts:
aroundtheworldyet · 14/03/2020 21:43

@justthisreally
There will be a clause. It will be a general clause

Ergo - you pay.

If you can’t afford to then you can’t afford to. Most likely they’ll go bust anyway.

Then people will start to have to pay serous money for childcare on return to work

Thehop · 14/03/2020 21:44

I work in a private nursery.

If we have to close parents don’t pay and we don’t get paid.

Thehop · 14/03/2020 21:48

Just to let you all know: nurseries do NOT pay their staff when they are closed. We have clauses in our contract that day hours can be altered according to the needs of the business so we’ll be out on zero hours until we reopen. We’re almost all highly qualified, experienced, minimum wage and zero sick pay staff members.

DonnaDarko · 14/03/2020 21:53

Someone else has already said on another thread that nurseries insurance is NOT covered. So most likely nurseries will ask parents to pay.

So if nurseries close, you need to make the decision on whether you want to keep the place or not. it's not bloody rocket science.

MyBlueMoonbeam · 14/03/2020 22:02

Just to let you all know: nurseries do NOT pay their staff when they are closed. We have clauses in our contract that day hours can be altered according to the needs of the business so we’ll be out on zero hours until we reopen. We’re almost all highly qualified, experienced, minimum wage and zero sick pay staff members.

I've said this twice on here already & it hasn't been acknowledged - no-one seems bothered tbh 🤷‍♀️

underneaththeash · 14/03/2020 22:07

It is covered by consumer law, if it’s not covered by s fair contract, under the consumer law act they cannot charge unless the service is provided.

EmmaBridgewater20 · 14/03/2020 22:14

If you really couldn’t afford it and unless you seriously wouldn’t be able to find another nursery or childcare provider once the dust settles just tell them you have no money. Are taking your child out and therefore won’t be paying. You have to put your own family first not someone else’s business.,

Undecided91 · 14/03/2020 22:24

Can you now please sign this petition and share it? This may get govt involved and nurseries wont have to pay expendive taxes = wont have to charge paretns in case of a closure petition.parliament.uk/petitions/300210

TexasTina · 14/03/2020 22:25

If they aren't paying their staff full pay during this time then I'd argue that they have no reason to charge full price and it would be quite slimy of them to request it.

Dishwashersaurous · 14/03/2020 22:50

Blue moon- not all nurseries have those contracts

MyBlueMoonbeam · 14/03/2020 22:53

:
@Dishwashersaurous

You'd struggle to find one in ROI that didn't 🙄

Nikhedonia · 14/03/2020 23:53

Just to let you all know: nurseries do NOT pay their staff when they are closed.

If they don't, why are some nurseries saying they will charge parents 100%?! Confused what's their justification?

If I had DC or nursery age and they closed, I don't think I would pay the fees as they aren't providing the service. If I was going to consider paying the fees, it would be on the absolute condition the staff were getting full pay. And I'd want that in the contract amends. If they weren't, I'd tell them to get to fuck and I'd see them in court.

ClareBlue · 15/03/2020 01:26

Those referencing consumer law and breach of contract for none provision of service are wrong. Any instruction to close under infectious disease legislation or similar does not hold any service liable for breach of contract. You can not contract to breach a statutory provision, so if the law says you close, you close. Can you legally charge whilst you are closed under an instruction under the legislation? Yes you can. Do you have to? No. If it is stated in your contract one way or the other then this is the basis for the charge or not, not general consumer law. If you think the charging contract is not for you then you can terminate your contract under the existing conditions, i.e. what ever notice period you have. You have no recourse for damages where a service has to be withdrawn under powers under infectious disease legislation or similar. One of the reasons there are time scales on actions is to help make these decisions. This actually happens quite often, but just not as wide spread as potentially this situation. For example workplaces are closed with suspected legionella outbreaks including leisure centers with annual membership, nobody gets refunds on membership despite being denied a service for a period of time whilst testing and investigating. You have to find out what your service is intending to do, agree or disagree, or negotiate, and decide if you want to continue or not. Much depends on how long the instruction to close is, I would expect. If you withdraw, will the creche still be there when you want to return? Probably not. Will they want you back? I would say that depends. Will it result in stricter contracts and higher fees to build up reserves? Probably yes. And a final point. Does this not show how undervalued the sector is that a few weeks lost revenue is going to devastate the industry and the workforce because there has never been enough revenue for forward planning or building reserves. We justifiably want high regulation and standards in the sector but can't fund it to a level where it can take any shock to the system - very sad all round.