So surely now is the moment for the UK to shut down?

[littleblackdress04]

All the info I have read online indicates that the UK is probably 2 weeks behind Italy in terms of infection. So rather than wait until the horse has proverbially bolted, wouldn’t it make more sense to shut down now and stop a massive spread of coronavirus?

It is.
Czech Rep has only 40 cases and shit ALL schools. Also all public gatherings over 100 people are cancelled.
I get that Czech is smaller country but still, they said they won’t let Coro to spread like in other larger countries..

I take it you don’t own your own business then OP?

I run my own business and it supports my family, mortgage, food and everything else.

I can’t just ‘shut down’ as I’d lose everything.

I think you’re being a tad unrealistic and ungrounded.

People do think that the UK is special so it is not going to happen to them

Yesterday I saw a tweet saying that the number of tests carried out in Italy and the UK were roughly the same number. The populations are similar. Yet Italy has far far more cases. I don't know why, I said on another thread that I thought smoking may play a role. But I do think Italy has something going on that isn't the case elsewhere. Why is it not so bad in Austria and Switzerland and Slovenia which are all next door?

I don't think people would follow any lockdown instruction at the moment even if the government tried. There is a huge majority at the moment who seem to find any mention of coronavirus "boring" or "annoying" and laugh at those stocking up on essentials... So no, if you told all these people to avoid all social gatherings and mostly stay at home for the next few weeks, they just wouldn't do it.

Interesting observation from Deputy Chief Medical officer this morning on Today programme. While Italy has an excellent health service it is more regionalised than in the UK which means there is a lag between decision making on national matters and implementation of those decisions. She said The chief medical officers of all four nations of the UK were talking to each other and better positioned to implement directives across the NHS.
I don't know anything about that so would be interested in others' comments.

@cologne4711 it’s interesting to me that the areas in which there have been the most cases are the areas that have introduced 5g.

Here is another Italian doctor the govt listen to
g.co/kgs/rzxXZu

You only have to look at Italy and see what happens when people see their movements might be controlled more.

People demanding for lock downs probably won’t want to be controlled either in reality. And those who aren’t demanding them definitely won’t.

Can’t you just let the professionals make the decisions?

😂

@FourTeaFallOut - interested to know in what way PHE is differing from WHO? I thought WHO only recommends lockdown measures when there is evidence of community transmission. At the moment the U.K. is still in containment. It looks like we might have to move to the next level soon but it will be done in a gradual, phased approach.

@sertchgi123 - or maybe you could do better?.. 🤣

I think some people like the idea of lockdown because they feel it relieves them of responsibility. It really has to be up to individuals take responsibility for themselves - that means hand washing, sneezing into tissues, not going out and about if you might be infectious (ie sneezing and coughing) - all the measures already suggested (and even scoffed at). Those who are especially vulnerable might want to isolate themselves, but the problem is the truly vulnerable ie those in care homes, hospitals and those who have carers going into their homes don't have that option. How is a true lockdown even possible when the first thing many people would is move around - look at all the people jumping on flights out of Italy? We all have a responsibility to act sensibly - coronovirus won't kill most people, but we need to behave thoughtfully. Unfortunately a lot of people can't be bothered with that - they don't want to let a cough stop them going to that football match, doing their shopping, taking a flight, meeting friends etc. I think the sight of supermarket shelves stripped bare is the perfect illustration of the me, me, me attitude of many in the UK. It would be lovely to think that we could lockdown, wave a magic wand and it would all go away, but it is not so easy as that.

@Bool there are quite a few eg Silvia Stringhini, Dr Daniele Macchini. The former is a public health specialist and epidemiologist. The latter is an ICU doctor in Bergamo.

@Homkaismycat - love your typo!

Czech Rep has only 40 cases and shit ALL schools

I think now is the time to follow official advice and trust the experts who are managing the UK

However, in the UK (not necessarily anywhere else in the world) the whole role of "expert" has been so degraded over the past few tears (as many, many posters to these threads show) that really isn't going to happen. Even here, on MN, a lot of posters are disagreeing with the expert advice.

Well, there a disparity in the CFR, although I think 1% seems more likely but that is just the easiest example of a disparity between the experts who are using different models with different agendas.

@floffel
Lol... I am not sure how to correct it lol... but thanks

The difference that government sanctioned lockdowns and school closures make is that other measures kick in eg regarding sick pay, deliveries, triage advice, fines for inattendance, health consultations by Skype, etc.
People who chose to ignore it would be putting themselves at risk. They're entitled to make that decision. (Unless the government decides they aren't and introduces sanctions to enforce the lockdown.)

It seems to me that the aim of our government is to let it spread here and then try and deal with the consequences - whether that be accepting the number of deaths likely to occur. They can't afford to shut the country down. It just won't happen - and nobody would stick with self-isolation rules if they aren't being paid anyway.

seems to me that the aim of the government is to let it spread here and then try and deal with the consequences

Yes. Quite. Think of the reduced pip bill in a couple of years saves them refusing it and putting people through hell they can deal with it all now

Am I worried yes, am I taking precautions yes. Am I in shutdown mode no.

In the end you have to trust the experts to make informed decisions. I do not have their tools, so will be guided but also follow my gut.

Money & economy are important as that is what pays for the hospitals, medicines & staff. So I understand we do not want to shut down until the optimum time.

We can all make our own decisions, I have chosen to work from home and not do the daily commute. My workplace are very flexible and are issuing briefs everyday. There is hand sanitiser in the office and I know Facilities have bought face masks. But there is no need for me to be in the office, I can do my work from home, so that is what I am doing. We are adhering to the hygiene guidelines.

We have been warned that there will be stricter self-quarantine measures in 10 to 14 days, with anyone showing any type of symptom will need to self-isolate. Time to work out what that means and be prepared. My husband has a bad cold, so we have moved to separate rooms and will use separate bathrooms (luckily we have the room); he is fine but will be housebound for a couple of days until it passes.

Reading these treads has both helped & not helped. I am more prepared that I would have been but there is some hysteria and panic that has not helped in some cases. So i will take the information that is kindly shared and make my own mind up.

I have a lot of respect for Chris Whitty.

I bet all those asking for a lockdown wouldn't want supermarket workers or delivery drivers to do the same.

It's worth looking at the cases per 100 population. Italy is way out in front at 151 cases per 1000 people - more even than China. We're only at 4 per 1000. Because the impact of locking down the UK would be huge, I imagine the Gov are keeping a watching brief to see if (or when) they might have no choice. All the scientific expectation is that this will die down in the Northern Hemisphere come summer, so it may just be a matter of taking reasonable precautions and sitting tight.

But lock down doesn't mean that delivery drivers would stop, that haven't in Italy, they didn't in China. I'd welcome measures to slow the pace of the virus, to increase social distancing in the same manor that Italy is currently. And me wanting that doesn't make it happen you'll be relieved to hear, no doubt.

I don't understand why overseas travel isn't being restricted. I'm still seeing lots of social media posts from friends travelling all over the place for work. Surely it's irresponsible not to be working remotely wherever possible.