Why are the Germans invincible against C19??

[CochonDinde]

I have close German friends, and my daughter's half German so I already knew they were made of tough stuff! But it's quite incredible as one of the highest infected countries they are reporting zero deaths and far fewer serious cases than anywhere else. Anyone any theories on why this is?

@muchtoosoon

Hrumph wish the church would stop with the handshaking with the peace. Just why why why can't we smile and do away with the sodding handshake. *

We were warned not to touch each other yesterday - we were told to smile, nod or wink and no communion wine offered this week at all, it was offered last week but asked for people with any symptoms to give it a miss. I refused to shake hands last week and no one cared!

This came down from the Bishop, were under the diocese of Leeds.

As an aside my DH has always thought sharing communion wine is grim and will never take communion for this reason!
My experience if both Germany and Italy is that they’re both clean. Interesting cultural insights on here though about how people are reacting around the world. I’d like to see a thread about “where are you and what’s the real reaction?” I’m in UK so nothing exciting to offer other than loo roll status- all gone in Sainsbury’s but plenty at another shop. There was a little old man looking very upset as there was no sugar either. Poor thing

Here’s the toilet roll situation at 10am this morning in my local Italian Lidl. Can’t move for the stuff!

I live in Germany.

We do indeed have good toilet paper :o 4-ply is standard. My American friends have been known to fly home with it :o :o

People are clean although if you take public transport, there are still those few people who don't ever seem to wash

Advice/procedures have been very clear right from the start.

It's normal here to take time off work even if you just have a bad cold. If it's more than 3 days (or more than 1 in some jobs) you go to the doctor and they will typically sign you off for a full week, and if you still feel ill by the start of the next week you go back and they extend it. You get full pay unless you're off sick for more than 6 weeks in which case the health insurance kicks in and you still get something like 66% of your pre-tax pay, untaxed. In fact your employer is more likely to frown upon you coming in sick and infecting other people than you taking time off because you are ill.

Hospitals are fantastic and the care is top notch. They are not under anywhere near the strain the NHS is under - when I had a routine operation to repair my finger that I sliced open, I had an appointment the day before to speak personally to the anaesthetist who would be at my operation to choose whether to have local or general anaesthetic, and I have never felt less hurried or that a medical professional had more time for me.

Did anyone read this account of self-isolation from a German guy? (It's translated).

www.reddit.com/r/de/comments/fcxckc/ich_bin_seit_heute_unter_quarant%C3%A4ne_mit_meinem/fjgbcwj/

A fun German Coronavirus fact to end with: The German word for stockpiling is "Hamstern" = to hamster.

How on earth can Germany afford such excellent health care, when my husband wasn’t even permitted a certain cancer drug, because he already had another type and the health service in (NI) wouldn’t pay for both? I wonder if it’s because they take more responsibility for their health and their working regulations, regarding sickness is much better, therefore better recovery times and less spread of infection generally?

The German lifestyle is pretty healthy, most people do some sort of outdoor exercise or sport regularly, a lot of people are very concerned about chemicals and toxins in food and products - you will commonly see tiny children bundled up in wool and natural fibres for example, and "Bioladen" (Organic supermarkets) are very popular.

The teenagers I know are worryingly sensible - it's like an entire nation of nerds :o I love this about Germany. That's not to say there aren't kids who go off the rails as of course there are, but in general adults don't talk down to children, children are treated as responsible independent people in their own right (mostly) from about the age of 7, certainly from the age of 10. And there's generally not a sense that caring about things like washing your hands is "soft" or "uncool" which you sometimes find in the UK. I agree with sense of social responsibility as well and people are quick to police each other and genuinely don't mean any malice by it. It is just a straightforward thing - wouldn't you want to know that you're transgressing the rules? Seems to be the attitude.

I agree with the posts saying it's pointless to compare, but it can be fun to speculate.

Do they need any dog sitting services?

packs bag and books three tickets for Germany 😁

How on earth can Germany afford such excellent health care
Because it's illegal not to have health insurance and you will have to pay back payments if caught without - you either go on a family insurance plan or have your own public one (paying less if low income). Those in private ones aren't allowed back into the public one but yes, most of the population pay a fair whack each month.

How does that effect those on low incomes? Do they get some extra help regarding health insurance?

"Dd says nobody is that worried and they just joked about it."

Well, I don't suppose 20 year olds in this country are worried about it are they?
This Belgian mayor (admittedly an oddball) seems worried enough to try to cut off his district.

www.en24.news/u/2020/03/its-a-totally-disproportionate-measure-maggie-de-block-criticizes-olivier-maingains-decision-concerning-the-coronavirus.html

Yes, probably, Family - dogs are hugely popular.

Health insurance here is a legal obligation and if you're employed, your employer must provide it. Unless you earn loads of money you have a state-funded health insurance provider, you pay 7.5% of your salary towards this and your employer pays the same amount on top of your salary. But it doesn't matter whether you're paying 7.5% of €20k a year or 7.5% of €100k a year, the service is exactly the same. There is a top limit on how much it can cost which is nearly €5k a month. If you earn more than €60k a year (ish) you can choose to have private insurance instead which does get you slightly nicer treatment - nicer rooms, shorter waiting times, you will tend to get the head surgeon rather than just any surgeon at the hospital, etc. But not a huge difference as I understand it. The main difference is that with private insurance you pay upfront and get the money reimbursed. Whereas with state health insurance, it's free at the point of use (there are some token charges for prescriptions, ambulance, hospital stay, and things like physiotherapy.)

Spouses earning less than €450 per month and dependent children can be insured under the main wage-earner for no extra cost. Unemployed people are insured by the state funded health insurance (I think) for free. Students, I believe the same. If you're self employed you have to pay the whole 15% yourself, although there's a minimum fee, which is about €180 a month, so being self-employed on a low income can be tricky. If you earn less than €450 a month self-employed, you can just be on your spouse's insurance as a dependent, though. I don't know what happens if you're single. I guess if you're single you need to be earning more than €450 to survive anyway!

I don't think that health insurance is expensive at all. I just consider it another kind of tax.

How on earth can Germany afford such excellent health care, when my husband wasn’t even permitted a certain cancer drug, because he already had another type and the health service in (NI) wouldn’t pay for both? I wonder if it’s because they take more responsibility for their health and their working regulations, regarding sickness is much better, therefore better recovery times and less spread of infection generally?

I have family living in Germany, early retirees, who are insured in the public health system. Contributions are means tested and they both pay c 750 euros per month which is the maximum ceiling. They are both well off but this represents about 25% of their gross income. They also have to pay top ups for particular procedures. I think “you get what you pay for” applies here.

Also according to friend here who is a dentist - the number of doctors/specialists in any particular area is carefully controlled. This means in general you will wait around 3 months on average (in the area I am in - I think some parts of the country are more, some less) for an appointment with a specialist, and basically everything goes through a specialist. Contraception for example you can only get from a Gynaecologist. Even urgent issues unfortunately can be a minimum 6 week wait - they will patch you up in A&E and then you're sort of just chucked out to be at the mercy of telephone receptionists as you have to phone around to find your own orthopaedic surgeon, radiologist (X rays, MRI scanning etc), physio etc - this I always find incredibly weird, possibly native Germans have their own way of going about this which is more efficient, but in my experience and that of other expats I've spoken to, it's baffling and complicated. They are technically not allowed to recommend anyone either, as you're supposed to have free choice, but occasionally if you look lost enough they will. However, once you get to the care it's generally extremely good.

Normal GPs and paediatricians (which are separate - children don't go to a GP but only to a Kinderarzt) operate a system where they have a free-for-all in the morning where there is a set period you can turn up on the day, wait generally about an hour-90 minutes, and be seen about anything that you need dealing with urgently - a note for time off work, a prescription for antibiotics etc. Most practices you don't need to phone in advance for this although some prefer you to. But any appointments which can be scheduled in advance, you phone up and they will see you outside of this morning time and there again you'll generally have to wait a few weeks to be seen. For developmental check ups which are roughly yearly for children up to about 10, there is a note at our paediatrician asking you to please book 6 months in advance.

There must be shortages of some medical professionals in different areas - I found I was too late to hire a midwife when I started looking at 10 weeks' pregnant, which was weird. I got care from my gynaecologist and then there are midwives who work directly in the hospital which you don't have to hire, but it was so odd.

Just looked up the pension rate for health insurance - it's 18.6% on gross - which is quite a lot! However, you'd only pay all of that yourself if you've come to Germany as a retiree, because if you've been paying contributions throughout your working life as a German employee, one of them is pre-emptive pension health insurance. If you've paid enough of that, then you only pay 9.3% of your gross pension towards health insurance, which sounds fine, especially compared to 7.3% as an employee.

I think this thread might explain why Germany’s complication and death rate vs confirmed case rate is looking so much better than ours.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/3843618-how-many-of-you-have-experience-of-testing-being-refused-despite-symptoms

Just seen an article on my local news site about a drive through testing facility :o

First two German deaths reported today, an 89 year old woman in Essen and a 73 year old man in Gangelt.

However, you'd only pay all of that yourself if you've come to Germany as a retiree

That is true. And it illustrates the funding gap between the NHS and the German Health Care system. German (and other nationality) retirees in UK will get free access to the NHS whatever their income. Incomers to Germany have to pay substantial sums.

Unsurprisingly the German health care system is better resourced.

The other difference between Germany and the UK is that irrespective of whether you have private or state insurance, you use the same hospitals. You may see the head consultant rather than a more junior doctor, you may have your own room - but it's still the same hospital. That means unlike in the UK the private insurance money helps make the state bits better resourced.