Why are the Germans invincible against C19??

[CochonDinde]

I have close German friends, and my daughter's half German so I already knew they were made of tough stuff! But it's quite incredible as one of the highest infected countries they are reporting zero deaths and far fewer serious cases than anywhere else. Anyone any theories on why this is?

Interesting to see almost no cases in the former DDR.

Supposed to be going to Berlin in a few weeks so fingers crossed it doesn't get worse over there.

www.google.co.uk/search?q=germany+coronavirus+cases&client=safari&hl=en-gb&prmd=nisv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjOw47884voAhWmThUIHS6YAh8Q_AUoAnoECA0QAg&biw=375&bih=512&dpr=2#imgrc=aU0NLVjvLEkRxM

Don't think Italians are more honest. From my experience in international assessment, Italians are more likely to try to get round the rules, so break quarantines etc. Which does seem to be what's been happening.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_outbreak_in_Germany
delicately you are accusing the Robert Koch institute of making up their stats?

Linking to a comment I made on a parallel MN thread.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/3842879-Italy

I agree with Purplewhitelie and think there’s a social/political reason behind it. Italian politics is often seen as a chaotic free-for-all. It’s true, but it also leads to a less totalitarian government control. Information is easily leaked (we all knew about school closures and enlarged quarantine HOURS before the official announcements) and government coverups are less likely.
I truly believe the German hospitals are not listing Cv as a cause of death if patients had a pre-existing serious pathology. Neither would I.

It also means that Italians are socially less likely to conform (tax evasion anybody?) so we’ve seen babysitters with 10 kids in one home or whole schools meeting up at the local disco.

But they have great respect for rescue services and the Protezione Civile. I compare it to American fire fighters or the RNLI. I suppose it’s because of their work in earthquake zones. This campaign was coordinated by them and people are following it with remarkable restraint. At least here in Friuli which, if you look on the map, is holding out between Venice and the Veneto region. How much longer, who knows?

Countries with strong civic traditions seem to do a lot better with CV---which is why the Italians are doing badly and the northern European countries, SK and HK are doing well. Agree re tax evasion mentioned above.

Fascinating!

I think your definition of “badly” and mine are quite different Kokeshi123.
Italy was highly commended by the leader of the WHO yesterday for its speedy and efficient handling of the situation.

Hrumph wish the church would stop with the handshaking with the peace. Just why why why can't we smile and do away with the sodding handshake.
My brief visit to Germany some years back, I was really struck by how cleanliness is massive, and agree with PP posts about the hypochondriac elements if my lovely German friends are anything to go by....but yes ultimately it's the toilet rolls

There at least two strains of the virus, the Italy one is meant to be the same as the strain which was completely shut down in the initial German outbreak. We don’t know about the other German cases are as far as I know. We also don’t know for sure if one strain is more deadly than the other. Maybe a mutation happened in Italy.

There is no treatment other than supportive care. The U.K. has very good levels of care in intensive care and we have had three deaths at a time when we are not overwhealmed so I don’t think it is down to an amazing German health care.

I bet the Germans aer much more hygienic when it comes to the service in cafes!

I mean, I'm just disbelieving that in big coffee co's here (I use Costa) a cashier who handles cash/cards touched by customers then goes and makes coffee, often taking a cup by its edges, then you drink it.

I never liked it, but surely now there should be some rules that a cashier is a designated person - who also has a hand sanitiser by the till and keeps cleaning their hands. I just bet the Germans doing it correctly, at least during the virus thing!

Also Post office and anywhere else with self service machnies - no one cleans the screens ever. Or if that's too much, put sanitisers on/by the machines.

Germans smoke more than Brits
A bit more than Italians I'd say
but much lower than in China

muchtoosoon
Hrumph wish the church would stop with the handshaking with the peace.
......
I heard that had been stopped for the time being.

I've no idea about the Germans but it's good to hear.

True that any pre-existing condition will be very well-managed

I think italy may have mostly the virulent strain ( L) and didn't catch it early enough .

Germany was more proactive and may have shut down the L strain eay so may be dealing with the S strain mostly. So a bit of luck combined with their excellent health care and organisation. No evidence obviously, just a hypothesis

Not great news for us as many of our cases originate from Italy

wish the church would stop with the handshaking with the peace. Just why why why can't we smile and do away with the sodding handshake. our local ones have stopped hand shakes and have a sign on the, now dry, holy water that there will be none until further notice, because of the virus. I bet the devote are still touching the fount, blessing themselves and sharing the germs. They’d be better filling with blessed surgical spirits. 😁

Germany has a lot of old people, a higher % than e.g. SKorea, but not quite as many as Italy

Conwy (Wales) has 27% of population >65yrs of age.

There are substantial regional variations with the UK.

This is all quite interesting, last time I visited everything in Berlin was super clean.
I haven't heard of any reports out of Russia, they must have some right?

yes there aer cases in russia - about 20. They threaten prison to those who fail to self isolate if coming from affected countries, and banned entry for Chinese citizens temporarily. Eastern Eur9pe is quite low so far It seens to be spreading from the South of Europe up and eastwards now.

I haven't heard of any reports out of Russia, they must have some right?

Would you believe anything you heard coming out of Russia?

If the spread is not dissimilar to other countries then it's not the fact that they wash their hands differently is it? It's about their resilience to pneumonia and organ failure. Perhaps they are just getting treatment quicker?

It's an interesting one to be fair.

Is the spread the same? My first instinct would that the Germans take signs of illness more seriously and don't have a culture of presenteeism. This might mean spread is reduced, and might mean that it's less likely to be spread to vulnerable groups like the elderly in the first place.

Recently, I was on another MN thread about handwashing and handling newborns, and it turned out a lot of people thought it was positive to expose newborns to viruses to 'strengthen' their immune systems. Without getting off topic, this is not the case. You should no more expose a newborn to viruses for his/her own good than you should expose your 96-year old great-granny.

With what I know of the German attitude to health, I cannot imagine Germans with undiagnosed flu-like symptoms being similarly blasé about passing on their germs to the most vulnerable like the elderly, or even to older children, who may have the potential to be superspreaders.

Or it could turn out just to be a coincidence and there's no deeper significance to Germany's success so far.

just wait till canada's numbers come out.
a health care worker has infected a long term care facility in bc, canada.
she, like many, work in more that one facility....
should this lead to a jump in critically ill/deaths categories it really wouldn't be a fair reflection on the country or services available. i'm sure most will have dnr/no ventilation/even possibly no iv fluids, end of life plans in place.

I lived in Germany for four years. A lot of people smoke like chimneys, even around children in my area, but they are otherwise health conscious, public spaces are cleaner than the UK. They do a lot of outdoor sports, swimming, hiking, or at least they did in NRW. The healthcare is fantastic, my GP down the road did immediate blood tests on site for suspected issues rather than ordering them for a later date. They also had an ultrasound machine most often used to detect blood clots etc. Quick referral to specialists including mental health. I was in the hospital for five days as an emergency admission and found it very efficient, was in a room with just one old lady patient, shared bathroom but very clean. If they thought you had an bad infection or something immediately worrying they were lightning quick with treatment.

I’m in Germany too. My wishful theory was that fermented cabbage has magical properties as Germany and South Korea eat sauerkraut and kimchi (triggers mass panic buying), however, DH was listening to a podcast with a German virologist and he said, as have pp, that there is a different strain, but also that we are much earlier in the outbreak than Italy, and he theorised that’s it could have been circulating in Italy since mid January. If you look at the number of recovered cases, we are also statistically low, as is S Korea. The majority of our cases are as yet undetermined.

I was quite surprised when I moved over here about how widespread smoking still was compared to the UK so I don’t think it is that.

As for loo paper, there is also panic buying going on. Our nearest supermarket made the front page of the local paper. Luckily we have a lot in anyway, especially because FIL, who lives in the same building, has just come down with fucking Norovirus, and I expect it is a matter of hours before we have it too!