Why are the Germans invincible against C19??

[CochonDinde]

I have close German friends, and my daughter's half German so I already knew they were made of tough stuff! But it's quite incredible as one of the highest infected countries they are reporting zero deaths and far fewer serious cases than anywhere else. Anyone any theories on why this is?

I was wondering about smoking and the effects on general, thank you.

Planning to try making my own fermenting foods this year (kimchi and similar) . Will bring that experiment forward a tad.

Agree, Germany, like us, is earlier in the process than Italy. And more aware at that early stage. I think Italy got caught with an unexpected group of infections before it was ready for it.

Belgium has a pharmacy on every corner as well so it can't be that.

But Belgium also has had no deaths, and it has a far lower infection rate - currently 200 cases against Germany's 1040 and our 278. Those figures also put paid to the theory that Germany has better hygiene/immune systems or are taking better precautions.

Belgium has a population a fraction of ours or Germany’s - I think (though haven’t checked every country) it’s got the highest infection rate in Northern Europe.

@Acrasia thanks for your response. The uninformed prejudice on this thread is worrying.
As you say, the virus hasn't been in Germany as long as it has in Italy. To suggest Germans' immunity is better than others smacks of eugenics. By that rationale, Italians are dying because they are weaker? WTF?

Very organised.

There won't be loads of people saying "it's just flu". Elderly are very protected and respected so they're probably getting it less.

I'm angry at how delayed British response is, even if it is to reduce panic.

It is just flu.

Every few years we get a serious outbreak and over a longer term an even worse flu.

It is just flu.

If you want to think it is a zombie plague carry on.

The real plague is the media reporting and social media fuelled by ignorance.

If it were about immunity/hand washing/vitamins surely that would mean they would get fewer cases, not a lower % death rate.

I think it's probably that they're doing more testing so they are including the mild cases in their numbers, which other countries aren't. Also that it's still early for them so those at risk haven't developed the complications yet.

They have 8 hospital beds per 1000 population compared to the uk's pitiful 2.5.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_countries_by_hospital_beds

Germans are very strict people. They follow the rules

They have self-discipline. We've been many times and it's very noticable that there are far fewer overweight Germans than in the UK and other parts of Europe. They (and other Northern Europeans) seem to take their health more seriously and live a more responsible life. I've worked with a few Germans - when everyone else was going to the vending machine for chocolate bars and crisps, they'd get their packed lunch out and have an apple. If they can be responsible with their own diet/exercise etc., then they probably have a healthier/balanced diet so likely to have a better immunity system.

The Spanish flu was 'just flu'. It still killed tens of millions of people.

We now have a flu vaccine which protects the vulnerable.
We don't have a covid19 vaccine. Yet.

It is just flu.

No, it really isn't. Look at the science.

Sigh. It isn't just flu. And Germany is still in the containment stage like us.
Also grateful that Johnson has little to do with it. He's shit. Other people dealing with it aren't.

If I had to guess I’d say Germany has more of a culture of adherence to rules- like the case where the train left on time with a baby with the mum on the platform.

Their A+E is second to none. I was admitted with respiratory distress when I lived there and hooked up with oxygen and steroids within 15 minutes.

That happens in the UK too! I know the NHS is on its knees but in an emergency A&E is also usually second to none.

It is just flu.

Oh excellent! So we already have population level immunity then? We have already vaccinated those who are more likely to be seriously affected?

You reckon every flu season countries regularly tank their own economy for a laugh, the stock market plummets, millions are quarantined?

Flu is as 'harmless' as it is because countries are prepared and spend billions, our immune systems have encountered it before and we vaccinate the vulnerable.

Anyone who thinks this NOVEL virus is 'just like the flu' is at best ignorant, at worst spreading misinformation that will lead others to take stupid risks with their own health.

366 dead in Italy now, but apparently some muppets think "it's just flu"

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51793619

Time for the UK to get serious and start banning flights to/from Italy at the very least. We're a couple of weeks behind Italy in terms of numbers/spread etc., so need to stop fannying around, otherwise we're going to need a total lockdown/movement ban in the UK too!

The German health system is far superior to ours, I don't know why we can't follow their model. Oh yes, because it costs more....and also the attitude there of wanting to look after the elderly seem different. I wonder if it even relates to the much better cost of housing there so there is not so much resentment towards the "house blocking, bed blocking" eldest generation.I have seen the treatment of my older relations there compared to in the UK. They have survived things that the UK side have not - rare cancer, diabetic complications for example. My friend with Crohn's disease was miserable and ill here for ages, fobbed off with mild meds, when they collapsed in Germany they were properly scanned, the site of the complications found and a swift operation followed with no post-op difficulties.

They are way ahead the rest of Europe on critical care beds, while the UK languishes near the bottom.

They still do real care that does not always have pharma or medical equpiment companies' interests so embedded. e.g. my relations in Germany who go with backpain get prescribed physio (proper physio, not the excuse for physio I've experienced in the NHS where the therapist does not want to touch you for more than 5 mins and hands out a sheet of exercises) and hydrotherapy exercise which is available unlike in the UK which is rarely available. Here in the UK the first line seems to be a pain killer.

People are very naive about the NHS that the National means somehow that it is really a health system focussed on care without commercial concerns. It is a golden egg for so many providers of IT systems, equipment (non-medical as well as medical), low cost meds. Put that together with the growing bitterness in the "OK Boomer" world and you have what we have today.

Is is also the fact that the Germans don't go for the kind of sensationalist reporting of the British press with the apocalyptic headlines of the Daily Mail, Express, Sun and others.

We have far fewer cases here than in either Germany or France but given the way it's reported here you would think we had many more.

The British people are very stoic, but unfortunately the same cannot be said for the British press.

Just to combat some of the misinformation and wild speculation on this thread.

Obesity rates in Germany are around 22% of the population, which is very comparable to most of Europe. UK is the outlier with 29%.

Smoking rates in Germany are 30% of the population (I assume this is adult population), whereas UK is 19.5%, so considerably lower. (worldpopulationreview.com/countries/smoking-rates-by-country/)

Germans don't all follow rules. Corporate tax avoidance is pretty common in Germany and it's estimated that Germany loses 15 billion US dollars to corporate tax avoidance.

In NRW, one of the centres of the outbreak, the local government deliberately did not go into lock down, because they understood that people most likely wouldn't follow it and start panicking. They dealt with it in a different way. There's an interesting article on it here: www.spiegel.de/international/germany/a-district-is-paralyzed-by-coronavirus-a-15c4f257-0f30-4719-aa1d-ea34c73a722b

Bidets still common - so no major loo roll buying

Health care far better. Scans, blood tests etc done immediately at GP not on referral to hospital.

When I was at school in Germany, if anyone in class reported D&V, then even if no vomiting had happened at the school, cleaners would be called out immediately to deep clean the classroom, the locker room and all communal areas. They are obsessed with cleanliness. Doesn't explain the lack of deaths though , and Germany has had infections for longer than we have.

@backtonormalname hmm depends on your definition of superior. When my German father was brain-dead from an aneurysm they still kept him alive in opposition to his DNR. The judgement of doctors is lent all the weight, the feelings and wishes of patients and families are secondary.

I live in the German state with 50% of their cases, the Cologne area. I think the reason why they thankfully don’t seem to have any deaths yet is that from the first known cases (a Carneval-celebrating couple in Heinsberg, and a car-parts employee in Bavaria) they have tracked down, isolated and monitored all contact persons, thousands of them. They put entire towns under house quarantine and the population complied. But there are lots of deniers and people who are blasé, go to Italy and on cruises despite the advice, people who walk their dogs despite infection and probably take their sick children to softplay centres despite the ban, and had to be reminded of the 450,000EUR fine for breaking quarantine.
There are just as many overweight/smokers/junkfood lovers/diabetes/underlying conditions/older people here, as well as a hefty chunk of “it’s just a flu” sayers. So it is definitely the state action and the capacity of the health service, to have set up new testing and treatment centres in Berlin and Dùsseldorf already.

all good points about the much better contract tracing and isolation but the fact remains that so far, Germany has the lowest fatality rate compared to confirmed infections (e.g. no deaths and around 1,000 infections), so the availablity of care surely has to be a factor of this? (scroll down page for stats per country) www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Of course it may be possible that the Germans are not marking deaths down as Covid related but that would surprise me. It would not surprise me in other places e.g. I'm told that a South East Asian country I know well where tourism is a mainstay of the economy, including "sex" tourism, that also seems to have contained extremely quickly with a very low death rate, has seen a growth in deaths related to "pneumonia" in the same period.