Time to close the schools

[PaddyF0dder]

I can’t believe I’m saying this. I’m a dad to 3 very young boys. Our eldest is nearly 6 and is on the spectrum. Our twins are nearly 3. They’re hard work when they’re stuck in the house. I also work as a doctor in the NHS. Closing the schools would be a nightmare for us.

I think we need to do it, and do it early.

Watching how this virus is spreading, seeing how harmful it’s been in other countries, reading the stats on transmission, burned on healthcare etc... closing schools and nurseries really seems to be the most logical step.

The UK is at a turning point. We’re entering the stage of sustained transmission. We may already be too late. But we might still have time to enact draconian measures early as opposed to late. Closing school and nurseries. Limiting travel around the country. It seems inevitable that these things will happen, but doing it early might save the lives of the sick and vulnerable.

I honestly don’t know how my family will cope with it. We have absolutely no family support re childcare. We both work hard jobs in the NHS. I wish there was a better option. But the more I look at the facts of this outbreak, the more obvious it gets.

We need to reduce viral transmission. There are many ways, and all must be done. One such way is to close schools and nurseries. We need to do it now.

Top of page 12 on the link I posted
the ACTUAL WHO report

Petition signed, if we close schools from now until after Easter the NHS will have the time they need and the summer weather may help keep the virus at bay.

Harping,

So 6 weeks of closure.

As you will - of course - also need to close all group childcare settings (nurseries, out of school clubs, holiday sports clubs), how are you proposing that those whose jobs are important to keep the country going BUT who have school age children are enabled to work?

How are you going to pay all of those employees who will need to cover childcare?

How are you going to ensure that these children do not congergate elsewhere? (I would suggest that this would mean closure of swimming pools, museums, art galleries, shopping centres, leisure centres, cinemas at minimum) How are you going to pay the employees of all these places?

Rocketman, so it’s OK to send kids in to infect the teachers? Why should teachers be exposed to a hotbed of infection?

It worse if schools close. Kids can't be kept indoors and will be out in parks/shops/ public transport

Top of page 12 - 80% have mild to moderate symptoms needing no health care

They include Pneumonia as a mild - moderate symptom, and there's no mention of if they required healthcare.

Approximately 80% of laboratory confirmed patients have had mild to moderate disease, which includes non-pneumonia and pneumonia cases

My DD has gcse content to learn, she needs to go to school.

Children are super-spreaders

Again, nope. In many epidemics, children are at higher risk of both catching and spreading the disease, because they are less likely to be immune. Adults are more likely to have come into contact with the illness in the past, and so to have immunity.

However no one has been in prior contact with coronavirus, so no one of any age is immune thanks to prior exposure (some people may be genetically immune, but we don't know that yet). Children are in fact probably less likely to spread Coronavirus because they are less likely to become unwell with it, and therefore to be coughing and sneezing.

But kids wipe their saliva everywhere!

Irrespective of coughing and sneezing!

It doesn’t really help here if children are home yet people are still squashed into public transport coughing etc travelling before they realise.

Cantkeepawayforever, I have a school aged child and no real childcare. It's going to be a bloody nightmare. But, our hospitals are going to massively struggle, people will need critical care and beds.
If we can slow the progress we have a better chance of coping. If I or one of my family get pneumonia I want to know there will be a bed and care. That is the priority atm.

But kids wipe their saliva everywhere

Not (most) school age children - the subject of this thread.

I have 2 DC in different schools. They both enjoy school and it allows me to work, which I enjoy but more importantly need to pay my bills, but my mum has a lower immune system due to a previous illness and my Grandad is high risk based on age. I think large gatherings as well as schools etc. should be closed sooner rather than later to delay the spread. Even if this is done systematically in the areas identified in having the most cases and with a view to opening after Easter if numbers are under control.

The NHS is going to shortly be swamped and anything we can do to stagger out the numbers infected will benefit those of us who need NHS help. This is why I am sharing the link. I completely understand if others think I am OTT, but I would like to help the NHS cope!
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/300403

@ListeningQuietly the chief science officer of WHO has said children need to be considered transmission risk & this should inform policy on school closures. She tweeted the research last night, I did post the link previously. I think the science is advancing fast - the WHO report you quoted, which is really good, was from earlier in February, around 20th I think?

"You will also need to plan childcare for if you get sick."

If we are both too ill to care for ds he will have to go into care. We have no way around that.

Mrs Noah, I’m a teacher, they DO.

Spitting
Sneezing/coughing without covering their mouths
Chewing gum and leaving it somewhere
Snotty tissues
Unwashed hands
Shared pencils
Wiping mouths on sleeves
Snogging
Kissing

I could go on. All if that transmits the virus

Also re kids, virus is also in urine & fecal matter - whether they cough or sneeze, they need to be taught v vigilant hygiene in toilets. It’s another reason why they spread despite having mild symptoms. Again, shutting schools makes this much more manageable.

Are you joking mrs noah ?

On Friday I observed 15 year old boys hugging each other, wrestling, high fiving and spitting. I had to stop three girls sharing out a water bottle , and I lent six pens out. Plenty of those were returned having been in mouths.

Not (most) school age children - the subject of this thread

Ha ha-you are having a laugh, yes?!

Absolutely Piggy!!! Secondary school kids do all of that and more!

X post with emoji. I forgot about chewing gum which seems to have come back into fashion again.

Brass ensembles regularly tip saliva on to the floor as well! niche problem

It is not true to read the WHO report as saying 80% didn't require hospital treatment, it says they were classified as mild/moderate including pneumonia/nonpneumonia cases, and weren't 'severe' or 'critical'. Some initially looked severe went on to become more moderate, and some moderate,and even mild did die (in lower numbers). They do not state whatsoever that people with pneumonia didn't require health-care!

Second, if you read the WHO what it makes clear is that China instituted the most aggressive response to containing the epidemic they have ever seen. They built two new hospitals and send 44,000 health-care workers from all over China to those regions. They also state in their second point that these containment measures, including isolation, bans on travel, bans on schools etc were only possible because of the collective will of the population to engage with them (and also the fact that the authorities had fairly draconian measures if they did not). This is not the UK!

Reading the WHO report is very interesting, but it presents a different scenario than the UK, we could be better or worse off in different ways, but few are prepared to live in lockdown as they did in China to contain this, as this thread has shown. The WHO report is full of praise actually for their response. It does not say this is a mild disease and we should just carry on as normal, as some people seem to be saying on this thread.

I'm not even personally worried, I have plenty of things to worry about and this is not it, but I don't want us to regret not taking these quite obvious measures too late- as I said before, I support strategic school opening (for key workers' children, perhaps reduced classes for some year groups, school dinners still provided but distributed through other channels) and closing, plus opening for exams, partly so that if and when teachers are affected, we can cope with this. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing scenario but the WHO report states incredibly clearly that doing nothing is not an option.

School age kids are disgusting. I remember being secondary age and transferring drinks from bottle to my mouth to someone else's mouth like a whale. Horrifying now but we were all doing it.

Yeah, and the thing that k said about them trying to take a photo inside someone’s mouth. They quite often try to do this🙄. And then they pass the phone round to look at the puctures