Time to close the schools

[PaddyF0dder]

I can’t believe I’m saying this. I’m a dad to 3 very young boys. Our eldest is nearly 6 and is on the spectrum. Our twins are nearly 3. They’re hard work when they’re stuck in the house. I also work as a doctor in the NHS. Closing the schools would be a nightmare for us.

I think we need to do it, and do it early.

Watching how this virus is spreading, seeing how harmful it’s been in other countries, reading the stats on transmission, burned on healthcare etc... closing schools and nurseries really seems to be the most logical step.

The UK is at a turning point. We’re entering the stage of sustained transmission. We may already be too late. But we might still have time to enact draconian measures early as opposed to late. Closing school and nurseries. Limiting travel around the country. It seems inevitable that these things will happen, but doing it early might save the lives of the sick and vulnerable.

I honestly don’t know how my family will cope with it. We have absolutely no family support re childcare. We both work hard jobs in the NHS. I wish there was a better option. But the more I look at the facts of this outbreak, the more obvious it gets.

We need to reduce viral transmission. There are many ways, and all must be done. One such way is to close schools and nurseries. We need to do it now.

Ex primary teacher here who met up with ex colleagues last night. I was amazed at hearing how teachers are buying handwash for the children in their class to use as the school hasn't bought enough.
Contract cleaners in schools just aren't given enough time to clean properly and they're finding the tables, chairs still dirty every morning and having to clean them themselves.
In one particular school, there are children at home isolating as members of their family have symptoms, however staff, some with conditions such as COPD and asthma are expected to continue to come in as usual despite feeling unwell.
Whilst children may not be as affected, staff in schools will be. It's only a matter of time before schools are closing because they do not have enough staff, not to contain/ delay.

I feel we’re going around in circles with the whole ‘children don’t get ill’ argument. Children will be ill, mildly, but they will pass on the virus en mass.

Don’t close the schools but they’ll close eventually when there aren’t staff to keep them open.

Don’t close the schools but they’ll close eventually when there aren’t staff to keep them open
Most definitely this.
And we'll see a massive rise in the numbers of school workers affected with covid 19.

I am wonder who the 'non-essential' workers are. My guess is People working in these areas, esp. face to face retail in ...
clothing (excluding some types of footwear, uniforms)
restaurants/cafes,
tattoo artists, hair and beauty treatments/products (excluding soap)
home furniture,
most types of sales,
physical or outdoor leisure, sporting goods/training
park rangers, national park or park maintenance
ppl involved in admissions to any programme/training
music/theatre/dance/stand up comedy,
sporting/music/most types of tuition
many types of designers of things,
the entire beer industry including all pubs,
everyone in the auto-manufacturing industry...
delivering any type of products to the last list of businesses

... then I run out of ideas.

Who else is truly 'non-essential' ?

It seems that teachers will be subject to all the germs, in an a unique position, more so than the rest of the population. So it seems it’s ok for them to keep going into work teaching huge classes, the majority of whom are probably carrying the virus and are superspreaders🤔

Do they get any protective clothing/ sterile gloves etc?

Look, I had I had to clean a big smear of dried snot off a desk on Friday with just antibac wipes. Had a full class so couldn't leave to wash my hands, just used out of date sanitiser. Some kids nicked my flask the other day and passed it around the room, open. It's only a matter of time before I'm ill. However difficult you think it is going to be, you have to make contingency plans, as do I. There is no alternative.

This is exactly what they are now doing in Northern Italy. All of these types of places, plus even funerals and weddings- stopped. No ski resorts, no tourist destinations, no museums.

Yes, and I expect that their entire economy will shortly collapse - given the North is their economic engine. I also expect that essential services (emergency and routine e.g. water, electric, plumbing, gas, vehicle and essential daily electronic equipment maintenance etc) as well as food supply will begin to degenerate.

Law and order follows the economy and the general prosperity of the masses.

Without consumer spend, the economy - and the cash supply, physical and online based - will slow and eventually stall. Like aircraft, it can prove impossible to restart in time.

This is exactly why China is sending people back to work. Their economy is on the verge of stalling.

Economies, cashflow and what we consider the modern, Western, normal way of life is surprisingly fragile. If you take measures that will very likely stall an economy, you must be aware that the economy may never get going again in the same form.

Do they get any protective clothing/ sterile gloves etc?

My school ran out of soap last week, let alone anything else .

So you think you know better than the government, medical experts and the Workd Health Organisation?
I don’t get all the panic and scaremongering! It only really has an adverse effect on old and or vulnerable people with underlying illness conditions.

I work from home running my own business which is definitely non-essential. Ironically any widespread closures would mean my services were equally if not more required.

I’m immensely fortunate.

Do they get any protective clothing/ sterile gloves etc

I have to buy my own board pens and glue so I seriously doubt it.

Let’s go to the what the WHO say about children and Coronavirus

So

1). 2.4% of cases are among children

2. unclear the rate at which children infect adults / so far no reported cases

and as others have reported, by reference to WHO reported, children have it relatively mildly

”Data on individuals aged 18 years old and under suggest that there is a relatively low attack rate in this age group (2.4% of all reported cases). Within Wuhan, among testing of ILI samples, no children were positive in November and December of 2019 and in the first two weeks of January 2020. From available data, and in the absence of results from serologic studies, it is not possible to determine the extent of infection among children, what role children play in transmission, whether children are less susceptible or if they present differently clinically (i.e. generally milder presentations). The Joint Mission learned that infected children have largely been identified through contact tracing in households of adults. Of note, people interviewed by the Joint Mission Team could not recall episodes in which transmission occurred from a child to an adult.

I don’t get all the panic and scaremongering! It only really has an adverse effect on old and or vulnerable people with underlying illness conditions.

And they don't matter, after all 🙄

It can also kill young, fit and healthy people too, by the way.

agree that some people are enjoying the drama of this. You see it on the other thread where they gather for the 2pm 'daily numbers update' and then start whipping each other up into a frenzy because the update is a few minutes late, because its another thing to get dramatic about. And I can't help but think that some people wait for that update with a hope that it's going to be a significant rise, so that they 'oh my god, this is really worrying now, we were right all along, when are people going to wake up' posts can start

I wonder why people are finding being on the cusp of a global pandemic, never seen before in our lifetimes, so interesting 🤔

🤦‍♀️

People have many reasons they are watching the figures closely and talking about it online - why do these threads always have to end in this kind of imaginary divide between us? You’re a hero if you aren’t bothered, well done you. But mocking other people and making it ‘them and us’? Not cool.

i think it is callous to suggest that they are being dramatic for effect

I don’t think so, I think some people are feeding off the drama and been egged on by others who are just as bad. Of course there are people who will be genuinely worried (my dads got cancer and my mum doesn’t keep well either so of course I’m concerned) but I do genuinely think there is an element who are viewing it like some sort of Netflix dystopian drama and will be disappointed if it doesn’t end up as bad as the worst case scenario.

And even “non essential” people need to work to pay tax to fuel the economy.

MarieQueenofScots I'm curious now! Online food delivery? Online education/tutorials?

According to the de facto deputy PM, "experts" are annoying ignorant folk at best, certainly not to be trusted or listened to.

I don’t get all the panic and scaremongering! It only really has an adverse effect on old and or vulnerable people with underlying illness conditions.

Dear God, Ameliabrowner are you for real? So it's nothing to worry about because only the old and ill and disabled who might die?

It only really has an adverse effect on old or vulnerable people with underlying illness conditions

So that'd be my parents, my in laws and possibly me. Oh and a close friend of mine and her young son. And my friend in Italy who is just recovering from chemotherapy.

That might be why I'm a little concerned.

Where are all the children going when parents work?

That's not the government's problem or concern, though that's not to say I don't think they should take it into account.

I was amazed at hearing how teachers are buying handwash for the children in their class to use as the school hasn't bought enough.

I'm not, where are schools supposed to get the money from?

Boris Johnson must be thinking that he should have been careful what he wished for - what a time to be the PM. Poor old chap.

Oh and my sister. 60 this year, lifelong asthmatic.

StealthPolarBear

Digital marketing!

Ok OP but why don't you look more into your Trust and PH policy.

I work in acute frontline medicine.
We will be seeing those patients who are too unwell fir self isolation and come in as an emergency, or those who might develop it due to being infected while in hospital.

I agree @furfucksake

Personally I manage my own anxiety by not obsessively looking at numbers, however I do find the worried Coronavirus threads to be the most factual and informative of all! And I thought it would be full of people ranting and being silly, it isn’t.