Time to close the schools

[PaddyF0dder]

I can’t believe I’m saying this. I’m a dad to 3 very young boys. Our eldest is nearly 6 and is on the spectrum. Our twins are nearly 3. They’re hard work when they’re stuck in the house. I also work as a doctor in the NHS. Closing the schools would be a nightmare for us.

I think we need to do it, and do it early.

Watching how this virus is spreading, seeing how harmful it’s been in other countries, reading the stats on transmission, burned on healthcare etc... closing schools and nurseries really seems to be the most logical step.

The UK is at a turning point. We’re entering the stage of sustained transmission. We may already be too late. But we might still have time to enact draconian measures early as opposed to late. Closing school and nurseries. Limiting travel around the country. It seems inevitable that these things will happen, but doing it early might save the lives of the sick and vulnerable.

I honestly don’t know how my family will cope with it. We have absolutely no family support re childcare. We both work hard jobs in the NHS. I wish there was a better option. But the more I look at the facts of this outbreak, the more obvious it gets.

We need to reduce viral transmission. There are many ways, and all must be done. One such way is to close schools and nurseries. We need to do it now.

Yes I know @Nearlyalmost50 but if you’re at work and your teens are home alone they’ll do what they like.

Honestly the drama about this is starting to get a bit over the top. Yes I know it’s serious yes I know measures need to be taken and we all need to be vigilant but as I said above I honestly think some people are just thriving on the drama and actually willing it to be the worst case scenario.

I think this is where the government are going to need to intervene. Companies should continue to pay those who cannot work due to illness or caring responsibilities. Government should support companies large and small through a dedicated fund.

As has been said uptbread, scrap the many many billions set aside for HS2 and pledge to support the nation next 6 months.

Incredible how a crises focusses the mind on the essential and non essential. Just hope the government see it this way too.

But you are in the same boat if all the schools close aren't you?

Even if home, there is going to be an expectation that we deliver lessons as a minimum to exam classes.

Agree that it’s all too late to take action, this country is bloody useless. There’s only 3 weeks till the Easter holidays, close schools now, what are they waiting for??

I have every sympathy for those with childcare issues etc but we have to do everything we can to reduce the spread of the virus.

I'm not sure they are being allowed to congregate in groups in Italy, they can go to prison for breaking the rules in place.
Shutdown means just that, not carrying on as normal.
shock horror, some parents might have to "parent" I know that sounds a bit far fetched

I agree @Youngatheart00. People aren’t “going to do the right thing” and self isolate for £95 a week SSP. Or at least many won’t. The government seem to have plenty of money for shite like Brexit, not to mention the odd illegal war, nuclear weapons and HS2, they can put their hand in their pockets for this.

The person who mentioned playdates - what's the point of closing schools if children will gather anyway? The point is not to gather in groups isn't it?

My children's secondary is like a massive crush at break time, they are squashed in like sardines. Of course meeting two others round at someone's house isn't the same!

My vote would be for strategic closure, with some skeleton facilities left for staff who can work and pupils who have no-one to take care of them at home (esp for essential staff). Free-school meals could still run in some form although parents may have to collect them.

Some people on this thread seem to think the goal is either no transmission or you just give up and let it spread. What's the point of closing schools if you just let kids go to shopping malls? Well- collectively as a society, we have to accept that having large amounts of elderly die is socially unacceptable, so we don't allow our children to hang in shopping malls, or we close them altogether for a short period.

Same with - we can't close the schools because of free school meals/no childcare- the schools are already closed 13 weeks a year! People have to have childcare or food for their kids on those weeks. So we have to do more of the things we do in those 13 weeks, and put initiatives in place to try to catch some of the worst effects for those that will struggle to do this.

@Rosehip10 I just wanted to say that I share your concern that this person may not be a doctor. The idea that any NHS doctor would consider unilaterally instigating appointments by video link is so fanciful I actually laughed out loud. The way this person uses medical terminology is also unconvincing. It might be appropriate to refer this to the admins, though I'm not sure their job is to vet people's professional qualifications. So suggest everyone takes this poster's views with a pinch of salt and refers to Public Health England and their local NHS guidance instead.

some parents might have to "parent" I know that sounds a bit far fetched

Don’t be puerile.

@Youngatheart00 yeah right because this government is a really caring one ! 🙄🤔

@Ariadne I don't think I have prescribed any panic. I'm just disagreeing with you on your interpretation of the level of risk. I'm not an expert of course and I don't know if closing schools would help or not. But I don't trust the government at all.

And you don’t trust the WHO? or CDC? and think your risk assessments superior to the world’s leading scientists?

(So nor MY interpretation, that of those who k now way more than me or the posters on this thread)

@MotherOfAllNameChanges without debating politics, I believe this would be a prudent economic strategy as much as a caring one.

True @MotherOfAllNameChanges the people who adopted an “I’m alright Jack” attitude when voting Tory can’t really expect the government themselves to do any different, sadly.

I agree with this actually.

I just think that there is so much more to be gained by getting ahead of the curve than waiting until it hits and then taking measures. I’ve looked at all the stats and projections, at Italy and Iran and China. I have a very relevant scientific background so I do understand the data.

Even without total school closures, there could be a gain from urging anyone who can keep their kids at home to do so, anyone who can work from home to do so, and anyone who can limit public transport to do so. And cancel large events.

The idea that any NHS doctor would consider unilaterally instigating appointments by video link is so fanciful I actually laughed out loud

Different profession, but I am thinking about how to deliver online services to my students at university for the rest of the term. Many US unis like Berkeley have stopped face to face delivery of courses for the rest of the term. I was going to use a combination of voice/pod-casting, email, Skype or even mobile calls. I mark online anyway.

Our GP surgery uses phone calls for a large proportion of consultations now. The drs phone you directly. It's great for the vast majority of things which are either non-urgent or don't need face to face contact.

There are already kids who get their only half decent meal of the day at school. So if schools close those kids end up worse off again :(

Every possible solution seems to just bring more problems :(

@Sightlinesandsolutions

Yep, I'm very skeptical too (and of course this is MN so twins are of course involved also!). If a Doctor has genuine concerns then they would be raising issues, however, I'm sure PHE (and remember the Chief Medical Officer luckily is a specialist epidemiologist) are clear on what "advice" they do and don't need!

But it's like anything online - people say they are lawyers, Doctors, DH earns 500k a year, they are penniless "but just want a hand hold" and all these may be true but of course equally they may not and no-one can prove it either way, so everyone should not fall into "I did this as an "expert" on-line told me too"

I don’t see teachers as childcare at all, they are skilled professionals who do an important job in educating and preparing our children for the workforce and adulthood. I am fortunate in that I wouldn’t need to worry about childcare and loss of income in the event of school closures.
But...I still worry about the impact on GCSE and A level students whose exams will be postponed. I do worry about nurseries going bust through the lockdown and those facilities not being there when things start returning to normal.
I have children who have compromised immune systems / lung conditions which will make them susceptible if they catch the virus. But I honestly don’t know what is the best solution. Everything has its downsides.
A lot of the people providing care for our elderly population are parents and could easily transmit the virus to their elderly clients. Likewise our nurses, doctors etc could be a source of transmission.
If we close schools and other public places are we just delaying the spread of the virus until these places reopen? We can’t keep them closed forever and the transmission rates for this virus are higher than previous viruses so if even a few dozen people have it when we start reopening, will it just spread then?
In the meantime during the closures how many people will be forced into poverty, homelessness, hunger? How many people will be left unemployed?
I won’t even think food banks will be able to help people because I can’t see then being open and the volunteers risking themselves and their families.
So many unknowns and our Govt are not providing nearly enough information.

I really hope they DON'T close the schools, because the first thing that will happen in my family is that my DBs will park their kids with our elderly DPs who have underlying health conditions so they can go to work. One of my SILs works for the NHS so she definitely won't be getting any time off. I think the govt is thinking this through and knows what will happen if schools are closed - the elderly and vulnerable will actually be put at MORE risk through having to be ad hoc childcare for their working offspring.

It’s time for lockdown. The longer we leave it, the worse the situation gets. Shut schools, shut everything, particularly the borders. It is unbelievable that we are allowing people to enter the UK from heavily affected countries without being quarantined.

Countries further into the virus spread than us (eg China, Italy) are proof that we need a lockdown.

But the economy is prized above people’s lives!

Every possible solution seems to just bring more problems

Such is the nature of the beast

It's about deciding what is an acceptable problem and what isn't and I'm not sure I'd trust either the government (any government) or individuals to make the right decision.

We did the supermarket shop this morning, I was there 5 minutes before it opened and waited in the entrance with three other people. I coughed once and the glare I was given beggars belief. I was sorely tempted to turn to DD and ask her if she'd enjoyed her trip to Venice.

PointlessAddict but if those kids went in for food, and only a few went in effectively for childcare, then there would be far less transmission in general!

We are looking at lowering risk, not eradicating it (too late for that).

These children are fed 13 weeks of the year they are not at school, probably not well and more food bank food would need to be contributed by the rest of us, but schools cannot just keep going squashing in pupils in overcrowded classrooms and facilities (which are stretched to the max) and once a few teachers get corona, the whole thing will collapse inwards anyway.

The government have said they will make it legal to have bigger class sizes or for children in an affected school to go to another school. Who is going to send their child in to a school where class sizes are even higher or a different school altogether with the higher risk kids, the government is absolutely deluded!

People are quite selfish and once the risk to their own particular children is very visible, the fact that others will not get a great meal once a day will fade as a social issue. Teachers and NHS workers are also not saints and some will decide, esp if they have pre-existing conditions or someone at home with them (themselves, husband/wife, kids, grandparents), that it is not worth them going to work, they could try to go off sick for example to retain pay.

People are selfish and that's why self-isolation is ludicrous as a strategy. You have to think- what will people really do and then work from that, the behavioural psychologists should be working overtime.

@Totallycluelessoverhere Why worry about exams? It wouldn't be your DC's school in isolation that had this problem in a national situation. Appropriate ways forward about taking exams and how college/uni entry works would be implemented. As there are discussions of moving to a grades before uni model in the longer future this just may accelerate that.

They're more likely to allow a payment to those with children who qualify for free school meals.