AIBU to cancel holiday?

[Nostrings457]

Booked to go to Malta in May - holiday balance is due tomorrow (over 6k). Travelling with young children and 1 aduly is aged 65+

Malta has no coronavirus cases currently but who knows what will happen between now and May. I dont want to pay the balance and then risk trying to claim off insurance if we dont go.

I suppose its more a what would you do than aibu?

(I know the risk is so low, influenza kills more people etc.. but i dont want to end up in quarantine with 3 young kids somewhere either)

I also imagine most people on here would agree with vaccinations and understand the concept of protecting the weakest and most vulnerable in society. But two thirds are saying the opposite on here. There is non vaccine for m the weak and the vulnerable and the only way to protect them is to stop the spread and to do that people you may have to give up a holiday. The fact people are saying otherwise says a lot about our individualistic culture.

Judging from some panic responses on here, the media are winning by instilling fear. The FCO would not allow travel if there was a moderate risk. It’s not irresponsible to travel unless advised not to. Get on with your lives and travel and just follow advice.

Right now you are just as likely to pick this up in any town here than you are in other countries in Europe (apart from Italy). Then the same thing could happen, you pick it up in the local supermarket and pass it in to an at risk person.

Everybody can do their own risk assessment and decide for them whether they want to lose thousands of pounds. Where we are booked to go to is an island with no cases currently. Yet next week I am going to a concert in London. Which do we think is more risky? How do you assess risk at the moment?

This will be around for a while and unless you are going to shut yourself away there will be some risk whatever you do.

If I get quarantined then do so be it. I’ll take the risk. And yes most European countries have more beds and better hospitals than us in general.

I have cancelled our Tenerife holiday next week. Mainly because I'm pregnant and my GP and midwife said they advise I don't. If I wasn't pregnant I'd probably still go. However, we've paid the full balance. I'd probably cancel and book a last minute holiday nearer the time.

My friend works at an airport- I'm worried about her because on a daily basis she will come into contact with folks from lots of different countries including those with higher infection rates. Is she selfish by not giving up her job - she also has an elderly terminally ill DF . But the airports are open and most flights still going.

It's easy to blame those with holidays booked, but it will be extremely difficult to shut down all sources of contamination and it seems unfair to blame individuals for merely following existing travel guidelines.

Tigerlilly it’s not a panic response. Look around the world. WHO have now said over 65s should avoid busy places. Airports are higher risk as no one knows who is travelling though. Local areas would be much lower risk - except - people insist on continuing to travel abroad. Imagine if the Chinese had ‘carried on with their lives’ and said everyone else was panicking. Government here have said they won’t rule out locking down cities - to stop people travelling around and spreading the virus. Obviously they wouldn’t have to do that if people would stop travelling now, so they have a chance to isolate the breakouts without have more pop up all the time in people returning from abroad. It’s short sited and naive to believe this isn’t going to affect us in some way - and travelling is clearly exacerbating the issue. Seeing as how it’s precisely travel that has taken the virus all over the world.

Rookiemere it would be far, far easier to shut down all sources of contamination if people weren’t travelling abroad and bringing the virus back with them. This way, with people choosing the travel, the government are always on the back foot fire-fighting as they never know where the next case is going to pop up, and how many other people have been in contact. I also love the fact that Mumsnet is full of feminists and go-getters, and yet when questioned about their actions the stock response is that the government haven’t told them not to travel yet 🙈 nothing to do with the fact that it’s just too much to ask for people to give up a week’s holiday. Honestly. The hypocrisy on here is mind blowing. You’d all have a fit about the incredibly low risk of an unvaccinated child going into a school with a immunocompromised child- and yet on the cusp of a global pandemic with a fairly deadly virus where absolutely no one has immunity you’re all saying your holiday is more important. It sucks.

Rookiemere there is also an enormous difference between people choosing to go on holiday for a week, and people having a genuinely difficult decision about whether they should give up their jobs and income to protect an elderly relative.

Health care worker in a cancer unit in the UK has now got the virus. A worker in an elderly care facility in the US has got the virus. Every single person who gets ill or dies outside of China will do so as a direct result of someone else choosing to travel.

Over 60s have been advised by the WHO to avoid crowds - that includes airports and planes (and all inclusive hotels)

Flights are still arriving every day from Iran, Italy, China. The government have shown they are not prepared to stop flights in so what’s the point in stopping travelling abroad? (Apart from personal risk).

They didn’t even isolate people who were travelling back from Northern Italy. So if someone wants to go on holiday from a town in England with 0 cases to an area that hasn’t go a huge number of cases either then I completely get that.

Furfock I agree. Various governments are talking about banning get togethers of large groups of people but airports never seem to be mentioned despite probably being hubs for infection transmission, and people on here seem to be using the excuse that since the government haven't advised avoiding airports it must be perfectly safe. The government must know that airports are a weak spot but for now are trying to balance public safety with keeping the economy going and avoiding panic.

I can only assume that those still intending to travel as usual have no elderly/chronically ill relatives who they regularly interact with.

notes on Coronavirus for guidance:

1. If you have a runny nose and sputum, you have a common cold
2. Coronavirus pneumonia is a dry cough with no runny nose.
3. This new virus is not heat-resistant and will be killed by a temperature of just 26/27 degrees. It hates the Sun.
4. If someone sneezes with it, it takes about 10 feet before it drops to the ground and is no longer airborne.
5. If it drops on a metal surface it will live for at least 12 hours - so if you come into contact with any metal surface - wash your hands as soon as you can with a bacterial soap.
6. On fabric it can survive for 6-12 hours. normal laundry detergent will kill it.
7. Drinking warm water is effective for all viruses. Try not to drink liquids with ice.
8. Wash your hands frequently as the virus can only live on your hands for 5-10 minutes, but - a lot can happen during that time - you can rub your eyes, pick your nose unwittingly and so on.
9. You should also gargle as a prevention. A simple solution of salt in warm water will suffice.

10. Can't emphasise enough - drink plenty of water! THE SYMPTOMS

1. It will first infect the throat, so you'll have a sore throat lasting 3/4 days
2. The virus then blends into a nasal fluid that enters the trachea and then the lungs, causing pneumonia. This takes about 5/6 days further.
3. With the pneumonia comes high fever and difficulty in breathing.
4. The nasal congestion is not like the normal kind. You feel like you're drowning. It's imperative you then seek immediate attention.

@tigerlilly17 where is that advice from? It certainly isn't the PHE or the WHO advice. There is no evidence that it can't withstand temperatures of 26 degrees

From a British disease expert who has been working in China since it started. It’s common that flu/pneumonia virus’s are more rampant in winter months and drop off as weather gets warmer. It’s why we only vaccinate from end of September each year til mid January against them. They are seasonal .

This is not seasonal flu

TigerLilly last I heard the WHO had definitely NOT confirmed that the virus would be unable to survive in higher temperatures.

Speaking during a conference call organised by Hong Kong-based brokerage firm CLSA, Professor Nicholls referenced the 2002–03 SARS outbreak and said environmental conditions – such as temperature, humidity and sunlight – are a ‘crucial factor’ in a virus’ ability to survive and infect people.

‘Sunlight will cut the virus’ ability to grow in half, so the half-life will be two-and-a-half minutes and in the dark it’s about 13–20 minutes. Sunlight is really good at killing viruses,’ he stated.

‘In regards to temperature, the virus can remain intact at 4⁰C or 10⁰C for a longer period of time. But at 30⁰C degrees then you get inactivation. And high humidity, the virus doesn’t like it either.’

No, it’s not seasonal flu as we know it, but belongs to the same family. Those virus’s react in similar ways. During the SARS outbreak, we saw it begin to drop off as weather got warmer too. That was the same at the time. Major news stories, outbreaks worldwide before it peaked and dropped off. Then came swine flu. It’s mutated strains that happen approx every 10 years.

It is hoped that the warmer months may help to slow the spread but its really irresponsible to state that as fact when nobody know its to be the case. If it was true then everyone with the virus would be put in a sauna for a few minutes - job done and no deaths . Clearly that isn't the case.

The issue in epidemics and pandemics is travel. If people didn't travel, the virus could more easily be contained. The first people who travelled thought it was safe, as did everyone else up to this point. Surely at this point we can all recognise there is no travel which is 'safe'. Not safe for those travelling, and not safe for those people who don't travel. Just don't do it. It's not hard. The quicker people stop travelling the quicker the virus is contained. If you insist on travelling the government will lose control of containment and have to move into the mitigation phase whereby they expect 80% of the population to get it, and hope to god they can delay it enough that not everyone is calling on NHS resources at the same time. 80% of our population is a lot of people. And maybe at that point, when people are dying, people will realise they should have taken the decision not to fucking travel.

Tiger Lilly It’s mutated strains that happen approx every 10 years

No - it's not a mutated strain. It's a new virus which has made the jump from animal to humans, it just happens to be of the same family of viruses.

@HasaDigaEebowai the report is based on studies of the virus so far by experts.

It’s a mutated version of the SARS virus family.

@furfocksake
If I’m not advised not to travel, I will be going , but following all advice and precautions. I’m not losing £6k on the back of media hype, especially when my insurance will only pay out if travel is advised against, not if I myself cancel.

As an nhs clinical worker, I will follow real medical advice rather than what the papers are spouting

It isn't the official advice and it isn't correct as far as we currently know. If it was correct then no further deaths would be showing since all we do is put people into a hot room.

If you're still travelling abroad for leisure you are part of the problem not part of the solution.

TigerLilly - Government currently considering advising against all unnecessary travel. Don't know whether you read sensationalist media, but I read the WHO updates. Nowhere is safe to travel, and travel is causing the spread of the virus. Be selfish if you want if you don't want to lose money, but doesn't mean you are right to do it. Coronavirus is 100% NOT a mutation of the SARS virus. It is a member of the coronavirus family of viruses and has just made the jump from animals to humans. Hence the reason it's called a new virus and for a long time was referred to as the Novel Coronavirus - and also why the WHO is concerned, because they can't just extrapolate from SARS to COVID-19 - even if they are from the same family of viruses. Just because you are a NHS worker does not mean you are right about this.