Bob Vylan interview / British Airways

[justanotherpassword]

Seems like BA have now entered the debate.

https://news.sky.com/story/british-airways-pulls-louis-theroux-podcast-funding-over-bob-vylan-interview-13457331

If you can't work this out I don't think there is anything we can do to help you.

I agree. I don’t think you can help me. If being anti what the IDF have been doing to the Palestinians makes someone antisemitic, in my opinion, you are wrong. Was the bombing of Iran’s nuclear program an act of Islamaphobia?

Yes, I really must work on that skill.

Obviously not. And reducing things down to 'being anti what the IDF have been doing to the Palestiniand makes someone antisemitic' is extraordinarily simplistic. Could I suggest you do some research? Pethaps start with the IHRA definition (with examples) of antisemitism. Dave Rich's book 'Everyday Hate' is a really good starting place to understand how antisemitism works. There is so much out there.

If you expect me to conflate a criticism; or even violent rhetoric in the case of Bobby Vylan; of Israel to mean a hatred of all Jewish people, that is never going to happen. I know many Zionists have tried desperately to do that but there are many Jewish people who find that seriously offensive.

What is a zionist?

I think you need to do a bit of research. Start with Theodor Hertzl and then Ben Gurions plan Dalet. Perhaps finish up with a bit of research about Deir Yassin. You know, those Palestinians who wanted to live in peace with Jews.

Well if I said I didn't like my boss because he was a dirty African and therefore a cunt, then said death to the Nigerian government as a white person, would that be racist?
Because I haven't actually mentioned skin colour there.

We all know what he means when he talks about killing Israelis, just like we all know what the EDL mean when they talk about Africans.

That's not an answer to my question and Im not sure what Herzl and Ben Gurion etc have to do with your use of the word in your post. They are both dead for a start and we're talking about attitudes now.

Zionism existed before Herzl and would exist without Herzl.

It is simply the belief in the self determination of the Jews in their historic homeland of Judea/Israel. The vast majority of Jews are zionists.

Absolutely 💯

That Pascal broke is not protesting though, he’s just an idiot.

It kind of goes beyond any particular issue, you really think he gives a crap about Palestine? Hes a clout chaser.

What brand wants to be associated with him?

And I say this as a POC, people are allowed to dislike someone who isn’t white when the give a clear reason for being unlikeable.

Did anyone see that interview of him and HSTikkytokky? I mean seriously, he just stood there and provided no response, no probing questions. What even was that? Why is this guy somehow renowned? I dont get it.

A homeland at the expense of whom. A simple question. If an Israeli converted from Judaism to Christianity, do they lose their right to remain in Israel as a citizen.

Jews come from Israel. Its a simple concept.
As to your second question, under the current constitution, obviously not. Read the constitution. 18 % of Israel's population is muslim, around 2% christian, a slightly smaller proportion druze & other religions. I have idea why you didn't know that many people other than Jews are citizens of Israel. Its a very diverse society.
Please answer my question as to who you mean by 'zionists' in the above post?

Hmm. Not all Jews come from Israel. Judaism does but I’m not going to go into that and I don’t really want to get into a discussion about history and theology. What I want to know is why you feel that the land belongs to people of the Jewish faith only despite the fact that many, if not most, Palestinians are descended from Jews where some converted to Christianity and then some to Islam. If that is the case, why should the land only be for Jewish people.

Who said the land should only be for Jewish people? Not me. Not the constitution of Israel.

@Thedawnchorus who did you mean by 'zionists' in your post?

@SharonEllis No I'm not 'misinforned'. Dave supports people who are violent towards Muslims and chant death to Arabs for fun being invited to roam British streets. Dave writes angry blog posts about a man who said Death to the IDF being on a podcast. Dave is a hypocrite who doesn't care about British people's safety. And if that's what is 'respected' in the UK now and considered anti racist then the problems run deep.

Actually Ben Gurion set the limit for 20% non Jewish of the population. I think his words were only 60% Jewish would not be acceptable or something along those lines. It has been the policy ever since. If Israel made all the Palestinians citizens, it could no longer claim to be a Jewish state. I, personally, have no problem with that as I’m a firm believer in religious freedom but that all countries should be secular with a total separation of religion and government. I include all countries in that including Islamic, Christian, Hindu and whatever else.

Except he doesn't! He supports the right of normal Maccabi fans to watch their team. I see no reason to believe that he would not support the arrests of any violent or racist fans or indeed the banning of individual fans if they were a proven threat to public order. If you can show me where he said it was fine to have violent racists 'roaming the streets' I would be grateful.
Dave cares very much about British people's safety. He is director of policy at CST which protects the safety of the Jewish community. Jews here are British you know? He has also worked with organisations protecting the safety of British muslims.

Yes, so not only Jewish people, as I said. What exactly is your point?

What did you mean by 'zionists' in your post?

Zionism is a concept where Jews should have a homeland. It was first posited by Herzl in 18 hundred and something. Ironically, it wasn’t just Israel/Palestine which was the first choice. Argentina was also an option and if I recall there is a town in Argentina which is predominantly Jewish from descendants of Jews who escaped the horrendous persecution in Europe and moved there as per Herzl’s plan. Now the idea of a Jewish homeland is fine, even though as I said, I disagree with any religion dominating a country and basing laws on said religion, but in order for Israel/Palestine to become the Jewish homeland, it was necessary to destroy a population which already lived there. How’s that?

That's not the answer to my question. Who did you mean when you said 'if you expect me to conflate a criticism; or even violent rhetoric in the case of Bobby Vylan; of Israel to mean a hatred of all Jewish people, that is never going to happen. I know many Zionists have tried desperately to do that'
You can't be referring to Herzl as he is long dead. The concept of Israel as the homeland for the Jews predates Herzl because Israel was where Jews came from (the Israelites).

So who did you mean by 'Zionists' In the post which was about a contemporsry issue - i.e. now?

And no it was neither necessary to destroy the people who lived in the region when Israel was created, and nor did it happen.

I think I’ve been pretty clear about what Zionism is. The concept hasn’t really changed in 150 years or so. I don’t know if there is something you have in mind that you are trying to get me to say. As for destruction of the people who already lived there, have you researched David Ben-Gurion’s plan Dalet? It was pretty clear.