Israelis should be welcome in Birmingham

[mids2019]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15206171/Parts-Birmingham-no-area-Jews-says-Ed-Miliband-ministers-scramble-allow-Israeli-fans-attend-Aston-Villa-football-match.html

The government need to act on this. West Midlands police have more than enough man power to police a football match with at most 1000 away fans. I watched West Midlands politics today and there was a politician brazenly saying part of the reason for effectively banning the Tel Aviv fans was they there was 'a moral point about Gaza'. We cannot have local councillors, community leaders and MPs agitating for the anti Semitic ban of fans of one of Israel's premier football teams.

We have to face reality want know that a lot of local residents are anti Israel and have taken this opportunity for VIlla Park to become a no go area for Jews.

Let's hope the decision is overturned and quickly.

The decision was about football and the history of violence by the MTA fans. That does not stop anyone protesting about Israel committing genocide. Israeli teams should be banned from competing anyway because the Israeli state is committing an ongoing atrocity.

And we also saw lots of angry, frothing men for Israel and far-right causes.

But for some reason you’ll ignore them.

Wait, what? So it wasn't only about some violent fans it was also about gaza plus some people thinking that Israel should be banned full stop from everything for an alleged genocide. At last. Knew we'd get someone admit it in the end.

That's nonsense and you know it. You can expect protest wherever Israeli teams compete. That doesn't change the fact that MTA fans were banned because of their track record of violence.

As usual any refute to @Gloriia comes with an attempt to reframe the question.

The question is that the original claimed rationale for banning the Maccabi fans was due to concerns that they were football hooligans who would cause trouble and violence.

Yet despite there being no Maccabi fans present we have clearly seen that there was trouble and violence caused by the extremist Pro Palestinian hooligans.

The point that ordinary Palestinians have suffered enormously is something that most rational people regret and certainly don't sneer at. But that wasn't the question despite your attempt to reframe it.

Those are two independent things.

Exactly

Actually it wasn't "angry frothing men for Israel or far right " it was Aston Villa fans pissed off that their football match was being hijacked for a political protest.

Basically if you mix a collection of oatmeal latte guzzling liberal left softies plus some extreme anti semetic Islamists with a bunch of hard nosed wording class football fans then it's generally not going to end well.

https://x.com/lewisjwarner/status/1986545152777986402?s=46&t=roDeJ8lNY1suZljI8XTTQg

Incorrect. There were pro-Israeli and pro-Stephen Yaxley-Lennon protests there too.

I saw a number of lives on tik tok yesterday of far right there, one travelling from London to be there ( no tickets to the match) I even heard someone shouting fuck Israel fuck Islam, so clearly just there inciting hate.

It was the police who decided that the fans should be banned because of the risk they posed to the general public.

Pro Israel people made it sectarian by calling it a 'ban on Jews' and blaming Muslims in Birmingham and not the violent, racist fans who as the police confirmed posed a risk to the general public.

BDS want Israeli teams(not fans, teams) banned from international competitions because boycotts work.

All of these things are separate and true.

The thing is to some people, any criticism of Israel is anti semitism. They’re not interested in actual measured conversation, they just want to shout everyone down.

'All of these things are separate and true'

Yes but when you throw in all these separate but true issues when discussing one specific issue which is alleged violent away fans it kind of reveals the true agenda which again, you've just demonstrated perfectly.

Just out of interest are you denying that MTA fans were violent and that people weren’t arrested last night for racism towards pro-Palestine protestors?

Criticism of Israel needn’t be antisemitic. But, sadly, in the UK it almost always is, at least from those who fixate on Israel. Which is all the campaigners and marchers and shouters and placard wavers.

Presumably you feel the same about the pro-Israeli protestors who were islamophobic yesterday, and the racist far right marchers?

Assuming there was obnoxious anti-Islam behaviour and that racist right-wingers turned up, why wouldn’t I condemn them? Nobody in their right mind would defend racists.

Which is why people shouldn’t defend antisemites. You know, those who obsess against and reflexively attack Israel.

No. It reveals the pro Israel agenda. It is simple, the violent racists were banned primarily because they are violent racists.

The pro Israel agenda turned it into a 'Jew ban', turned it into 'antisemitism', turned it into us vs them rather than everybody agreeing the obvious that foreign violent racists are probably better off back home in their foreign violent country. It turned a simple ban on violent racists attending a football match because of the risk that they posed to the general public into a campaign of division and hate. Everybody can see what they did, everyone knows that there wasn't a single logical reason for people to feel so strongly that violent racists who posed a threat to the British public, as stated by the police, should attend a football match. Pro Israel shit stirrers using claims of antisemitism to stir the shit and to shit on Muslims.

'Pro Israel shit stirrers using claims of antisemitism to stir the shit and to shit on Muslims.'

You keep proving the point it was not simply a football hooligan issue it was all about the conflict in gaza and the fear anyone may 'shit on muslims' as you put it.

Sorry, it's late I'm clearly not following you? The ban wasn't about violent racist foreign football fans but fear people may stir up shit?

The police have been very clear that the primary reason for the ban was that some Macababi Tel Aviv fans posed a threat to the general public. I'm sure there may have been other considerations too but the primary reason was that violent racists from Israel posed a threat to the British public.

It wasn't a fear that anyone would shit on Muslims, it happened. On mumsnet it happened. Muslims were being blamed for the violent racist football fans being banned from the match, the fact that the football fans are violent racists was being swept under the carpet by those with an (clearly racist) agenda and instead the whole blame was laid at the feet of Birmingham Muslims and the violent racist Israeli football fans were elevated to the level of victim rather than recognised as the primary threat as confirmed by the police. It was framed as an antisemitic attack on Israelis, a 'ban on Jews', it was disgusting and many posters here participated in it.

Anyway I'm just repeating myself now so I'm out, I'm glad the match past without any major incidents.

The thing is, pro-Israeli posters don’t want to acknowledge that MTA were violent. In their minds, Israelis can do no wrong.

The same poster you’re responding to has refused to acknowledge that a pro-Israeli protestor was arrested that night, and that there were far right protestors there too. In her mind, it is only pro-Palestinian protestors who can be violent.

How do you know all of these people think this? Do you have links? Are you psychic?

No?

Then enough of the hyperbole.

Why were the pro Israeli protesters there on Thursday?

To cause shit?

Yep!